Letter to Editor

[Samadhi]

You think voting is bad news?
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And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[Pablo]

Of course not, but that's a little "yesterday" don't ya think?

If there were any real good news coming from Iraq, I'm sure no one would have to Google for it. Bush would be on TV every night bragging about it. His administration's lack of reporting on progress ought to be reason alone to create serious doubt.... unless you've had your daily dose of Kool-Aid, I suppose.

I'm sure you care about your brother. But as for the troops, I'm no longer willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. And I have doubt.

[Pablo]

Oh, and wouldn't you know, that with all that good news going on, the f'ing left wing media would go and dig for some obscure thing like this to bring up?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11491483/

[Samadhi]

I ask again. Why do you have doubt?
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[Samadhi]

As for the googling comment....then that means you didn't google your earlier links, so you regularly read Al Jazeera? I see.
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[Pablo]

Lots of people drive around with little "Support our troops" stickers on their cars and everyone claims to care about them. To me, that's meaningless if you're willing to send them into the current situation. To me the evidence is overwhelming that we are sacrificing our people for an unjust cause, and just like Viet Nam, allowing them to die for no good reason isn't my idea of caring. Maybe you really think there's a worthwhile reason for them to be there, but if so, I believe it's only because you don't care enought to discover and face the reality. The burden of proof in this case should be on the government to show why they're there and what they're accomplishing. If the government can't or won't do that, which they sure as hell haven't, I believe you owe it to the troops to demand their return, and you're not. I think the point will (or has) come where it will be the ignorance and apathy of the American people to blame as much as the government, and I will personally hold those Americans responsible for these senseless deaths, not just the Bush Administration.
I'm not sure I even realized the depth of my own rage over this until I saw Antrax's bullshit logic and realize that it's true.. people like you sit in your nice comfortable chairs and pontificate about how "we're not done with the job" and "we can't turn tail and run" while innocent young men are getting their bodies blown apart.
The more I think about it, maybe you are stupid too. And you post that stale piece of shit and call it "good news". Jesus, what's it going to take for you to see the light?

[Pablo]

[Samadhi]

I got that "good news" from my friend. I asked both my brother and him for "good news" since they know more about the situation. I glanced at it while doing my Calc III homework and didn't notice the dates. My bad.

As for the rest, you're right. I really don't care.....about your opinion any more. You're not interested in convincing anyone, you're interested in sitting in your nice comfortable chair and pontificating about how other people just don't care because they don't read and agree with the conspiracy sites that you read.
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And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[Antrax]

[Pablo]

[Antrax]

My experience, I guess. I have no clue what makes me find it more likely.
In any case, what's the "overwhelming" evidence? You brought four points, to which I believe I replied.
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[Pablo]

[Pablo]

If you care, Google on "Iraq Soldier Morale" and read a few of the articles.

Or continue to wallow in denial and ignorance.

[Antrax]

[Pablo]

[Antrax]

Nothing interests me more than the respect of someone who can't hold a discussion without repeatedly resorting to name-calling.
The president is answerable to the citizens in a process called "election". I believe the congress can also force a president to resign. These are the measures to ensure the president doesn't act foolishly. Forcing the president to explain his every action to the entire public seems very counter-effective to me. I don't see the benefit, especially considering such addresses to the nation are usually quite vague and are of no content anyway.
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After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[Pablo]

From the "Iraq Veterans Against the War" website.

An Open Letter to Bubba Samadhi,

By Charlie Anderson, Iraq Veterans Against the War

I’ve seen you around. I’ve seen you driving your gas guzzling SUV with the “Support Our Troops” ribbon on the back. I’ve seen you wearing your pro-war/pro-bush t-shirts as you walk right past me in my Iraq Veterans Against the War t-shirt as if I don’t exist. And I’ve seen you at anti-war rallies and meetings where I often speak, as you wave your American flag and call me a traitor. In this country we have freedom of speech. But you owe me and every other veteran of this war the respect of listening to our experience.

Your magnet says “support our troops,” but what have you done for us? Not a penny of the proceeds go to us, instead they go to sweatshops in . You say that I am not supporting the troops when I say that they should come home. But I am, because I know that there was no threat to our nation from Saddam Hussein, I know that had no weapons of mass destruction, and I know that we were not welcomed in as liberators. I know that the war was not worth fighting. I know, because I fought there. You say I’m confused. But what do you know about ? You’ve never been there.

You have the audacity to claim that by not supporting the president, I don’t support the troops. Yet, the president chose to send over 160,000 of us to unprepared and without a defined mission. We had no body armor, no vehicle armor, and poor supplies of ammunition. Our families spent thousands of dollars that they did not have to supply us, while President Bush did nothing. In fact he didn’t even scold his Offensive Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, when he told our forward deployed troops, “you go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had.” Moreover, the mission was originally about weapons of mass destruction, but there were none. Then it was making a democracy, but yet the “insurgency” worsens. Now the president has decided that in order to honor those who died for nothing, more must die for nothing.

At present, 2,241 of my brothers and sisters in arms have died. In some way, they may be the lucky ones. Over sixteen thousand others have been wounded in this war, thousands more than planned. The term wounded sounds sterile, bland, and inoffensive. But, in reality, many of them have been so horribly damaged that medical science had to create a new word to describe their wounds: polytrauma. These people would have died in earlier wars, but because of the gallant efforts of brave doctors and medics, they get to live. They get to live with teams of ten or more doctors just trying to get their broken, mangled bodies through another day, as their families look on in horror. They get to live in a physical and emotional hell, not able to recover and not able to voice the pain they feel or the psychological demons they face. All the while suffering with a Veterans Administration under funded by nearly three billion dollars and unable to care for them in the manner they deserve.

So which one of us supports the troops? You, who has never set foot in Iraq and wants to leave my brothers and sisters there until they complete whatever the undefined mission of the week is, or me, the veteran of this war who has seen the carnage of battle, the rampant indifference of my countrymen, and just wants to bring my brothers and sisters home alive and care for them when they get here?

Keep coming to the rallies. Maybe I’ll get through your thick skull eventually. But remember I waved my flag in Baghdad , so you can sit down, shut up, and listen to me.

[Antrax]

Saddam Hussein was no threat to the US? People used to say the same about Hitler. Maybe the writer would also prefer the US not join the allied forces in WW2? Many American Soldiers died there, as well, and they were even less prepared and against equal forces.
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[Pablo*]

[Antrax]

I doubt it. We may come from different premises, but I doubt our process of deduction works differently.
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[Naboo*]

[Samadhi]

[Antrax]

[Samadhi]

I think Naboo is trying to say that if Hitler hadn't declared war on us, we would have just wasted hundreds of thousands of other people's children's lives defeating the peace loving Japanese.
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[Pablo]

[Pablo]

Like this is really going to matter to you:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-06-12-poll_x.htm

The numbers have only gotten worse since then and there are lots of polls that you could find if you really cared about people dying as much as you care about "proving" me wrong.

Think you can find a poll or other evidence that American support this war?

[Samadhi]

Dude, I only asked a question. If you're just going to pour abuse on me for doing that, fuck you and the soapbox you rode in on.
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[Pablo]

That was no question.. it was one word, and it didn't have a question mark. It was a challenge, designed to get exactly the reaction it got.

But the reaction wasn't the result of being challenged by you. It was the result of frustration that you are arguing this issue without caring enough to stay informed on it. Jesus!... who doesn't know that Americans are against this war?

[Antrax]

I didn't. Still don't, really. I have very little faith in polls ever since I studied a bit about them. This particular one you cited means very little IMO. The least they should do is show the exact questions asked and exact responses received, and the standard deviation.
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[Pablo]

OK, so there are 2 of you.

http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

[Samadhi]

Pablo: Just because I didn't happen to see that poll doesn't mean I'm not informed. Besides, I'm not too impressed by polls. There was one done recently that had some ridiculous result that 70% of people believe in creationism or something. I want to see the questions.

I'd seen polls that said less than half were in favor but I hadn't seen ones that actually addressed whether they were against. And I've seen other polls that imply the opposite of what you said, so I was curious.

But most importantly more than half the people are at or below average intelligence. Why should I care what they think?

Oh, and the reason I jumped into this argument isn't because I actually knew anything about it, it was because your arguments are rife with fallacies. My mom read some of your arguments (she's *very* against the war) and she said "He's really bad."

Then you started jumping on me, so I answered by reading your links and responding to them. Then you basically accused me of being a callous asshole for not knowing all the wisdom that you know.

Look, my brother volunteered to go there. His duty station could have been in Japan, but he chose the Middle East instead. He's got like Oh God level security clearance so I assume he knows a lot more than me. He's very intelligent and a great guy. My older brother also is for the war and I know he spends a LOT more time reading into things than I do. He is also quite smart and a good guy. My best friend from high school is also for the war (smart/good guy). Any time I've ever spoken with any of them about the war they always talk about it coherently and logically.

The only thing I hear against the war is emotional crap like the stuff you throw around.

Given all that, is it a surprise I might think what's being done over there is worth it?

And heaven forbid I actually try to get you to support your hypotheses. Then I'm someone who obviously doesn't care about the troops. Shit, I doubt you care about "the troops" except as some symbol to throw in people's faces.
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[Pablo]

[Samadhi]

So....I should believe in socialized medicine, the minimum wage, welfare, etc?
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And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[Samadhi]

And guns should be banned. Forgot about that. Oh yeah, and you need to pay a lot more taxes (plutocratic pig that you are).
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And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[Antrax]

[Samadhi]

Clarification: My brother is in the reserves, so that's where he goes when he does his yearly month or whatever. He's not there now.
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[Pablo]

At least one got caught:

WASHINGTON, Feb. 25 (UNION-TRIBUNE)
Contractor admits bribing Cunningham:

Defense contractor Mitchell Wade pleaded guilty in federal court yesterday to conspiring to funnel more than $1 million in bribes to former Rep. Randy “Duke” Cunningham and making illegal campaign contributions to two other members of Congress

[Pablo]

[groza528]

But he *did* agree with his mother on something... Granted, it probably can't be classified as an "issue," but:

[Pablo]

Oh, no. Someone's actually eavesdropping on this.