Movie mafia THE END

[MadMax]

Could we try to not cast votes til we know what is happening to Tansaafl.

Right now my vote would go to Tansaafl.

[Mackay]

quote:

---

Vote: Porro

My apologies to MadMax, by the way, I appear to have been misled in completely the wrong direction. Yes, it is a little odd to have so many investigative roles in the game, maybe DP can explain that to us once the game has ended. It appears to have served as a catalyst to fuel speculation between the innocent. I only wish that my night results could have been of more use to the town...

---

FOS: Kd
Voting a claimed mason? For wanting to hear TANSTAAFL's claim before divulging anything further? Saying things like "fuelling speculation between the innocent" when, if Porro is telling the truth, then at LEAST one of your or MadMax MUST be scum, and possibly both ARE? I'd put a vote on you, except that I believe that our most certain-looking scum at the moment is TANSTAAFL, and I don't want to risk killing an innocent at this dangerous stage in the game. Besides, a scum would probably be trying to keep a little more quiet. Throwing accusations like that around on what could end up being our last day is attention a mafia probably wouldn't want to draw to themselves. Nonetheless, consider yourself lucky you don't have my vote.

[Kd]

So, you're telling me that you don't find Porro suspicious? At all? IF he is indeed an innocent mason, what does he have to gain by waiting for TANSTAAFL to claim? What is there to hide? Supposedly nothing, but I'm not convinced. I'm fully aware that this is a dangerous stage of the game, and I'm not prepared to turn a blind eye to suspicious activity for the sake of having everyone claim a role. I was perfectly happy to reveal the full details of my role, because I'm innocent and have nothing to hide from the town. I don't see why a mason shoul be any less willing to divulge information than I.

Besides, once the claims are made, neither Porro or TANSTAAFL are confirmed innocent anyway. Maybe the mafia are stalling for time, to try and put together a slighty more convincing claim in order to save themselves. I for one am not prepared to sit by and wait for that to happen. It's in the interests of the town to secure a lynch before the mafia can overpower us.

I'm certainly grateful that you haven't voted for me, not because it's a vote for me, but because to try and point the finger at me for sharing my views on someone who I'm sure is scum would be to waste your vote. Please think about what I've said, it's not going to help if we give the mafia the time they need to form a plan and do away with us. My vote is staying where it is.

[Mackay]

*nods* You make some good points. And I know nobody can be confirmed innocent at this stage in this game. But Porro has claimed mason. True, we don't even know if a mason is left, but I fond a two-member mason group unlikely. However, in a DP game, well, a godfather mason ISN'T so unlikely... but it would most certainly be hard to pull off in a game where the roles can be researched.

I agree we shouldn't have to suspend our accusations in waiting for TANSTAAFL, but what happens if she, say, claims mason? Then we'd know one of them was evil, unless they were together. Two masons together at the end of the game... now there would be a blessing. (Or not... see "Mafia?" for details.) Anyway, my point is that TANSTAAFL could have a claim capable of proving or disproving ours. Or at least adding to the information we have. I'll agree that it's not the most important thing. For instance, jester's lynching yesterday was probably better off as fast as it was without the added confusion of him claiming a role, or possibly claiming he was framed. However, this is really important.

That vote has been sitting there for a fair while now. I am of the opinion that there is at least one scum among Kd, Porro and TANSTAAFL. For the simple reason that if MadMax and I were scum together, the game would be over by now. Two votes on Porro, and bam, bye bye town. TANSTAAFL is top of my suspicion list by far, but I want to at least hear a claim.
See, if Kd is innocent and voting for another innocent, the other scum could simply be waiting for TANS to return or be replaced before throwing on the last two votes, in order to avoid suspicion.
If Kd is innocent and voting for a scum, then that would explain quite well why Porro hasn't been lynched yet. The other scum would be at the very least unwilling to place another vote upon their other member, particularly if MadMax truly is a cop, then that would make Porro the godfather.
If Kd is scum voting for an innocent, it would also explain why there is only one vote on Porro. I don't think the other mafia would place their vote on and leave Porro there with two votes, throwing suspicion on the two trying to get the lynch. However, I put the least stock in this option for the simple reason that I don't believe a scum would attempt to start a bandwagon on a day where it's lynch-or-lose. And if they did, they'd start it on someone who appears more suspicious to other town members. I stated earlier that I quite trust Porro's claim, and I've stated in pretty much all my posts that I'm suspicious of TANS, as is MadMax. I get the feeling a scum would be more likely to take advantage of those opinions, rather than starting up a random, one-member anti-Porro movement. Unless of course TANS is scum. Just my thoughts though.
If Kd is scum voting for scum, then it's a very clever trick in order to clear the name of one in case the other is lynched. Separating themselves from each other and all that.

Hmmm. In my two posts where I've put a lot of thought into this, I've stated in one that I thought the mafia were two out of MM, TANS and Kd. In the other (this one), I've mentioned the same, but about Kd, TANS and Porro. Looking back at what I've just written, I reckon that if TANSTAAFL is mafia, Kd is almost cerain to be the other one. She seems to be protecting her. Ooh, I've got myself practically convinced that Kd and TANS are scum and that TANS is the godfather. Bah, I shouldn't do this. I mean, it worked on Werebear, but has failed horribly in a few other of my games. But yeah, these are just my thoughts. We'll see, I suppose.

[Porro]

Massive FOS: kd(and it was very nearly a vote)

For voting and trying to force me to roleclaim.

It's not exactly rocket science to hold back role info in case a mafia claims the same role. That's why I'm waiting for TANS claim. That's why I said in a previous post that I would claim last.

As Mackay says, it's probable that there is a mason left. Why should I spell out my role now and potentially allow TANS to come along and crib off my claim to leave the town in a dilema over who to believe.

I am the third and last mason.

[Dragon Phoenix]

I am trying to get a replacement for TANSTAAFL.

[MadMax]

I have not stated that I do not have suspicions of kd and Porro.
Merely that waiting for a replacement for Tanstaafl til we vote is best
strategy.

[Mackay]

Originally posted by Kd, reply 504:

---

Well now, it seems quite a few people had the same idea about their role claim... Although it is rather a good thing for us townsfolk, I find it hard to believe that there are so many investigative roles out there. Please note the bolding of investigative, I'm not saying you're all cops by any means. So far we have:
MadMax - Det. Axel Foley
Werebear - Oda Mae Brown
Leonidas - Frank Drebbin

If all 3 of these claims are true, and we also have 4 scum left, then that leaves only 2 townies/masons/whatever, of which Hitchhiker claims to be one, and the WOO is likely to be the other. As I am also town, I highly doubt that this is the case. We have to try to make the right decision for the good of the town, as a certified cop-type role is likely to be picked off by the mafia pretty soon.

---

I just wanted to paste this before I forget. I can't decide whether or not that sounds like an investigative role talking to me. The suspicion of so many cop claims does, definitely, but she certainly doesn't hint at it.

Yes, I've just re-read the entire thread, and I've come to quite a strong conclusion. Long post to follow. Might be a while.

[Mackay]

My conclusion, you ask? I have a very very strong feeling that TANSTAAFL and Kd are the remaining monster mafia, with TANSTAAFL as the Godfather. I'm not going to act on this, though, unless you others agree that it's a good idea. Unlike Kd here, I'm careful with my votes when the situation is lynch-or-lose.

First, my reasoning that MadMax and Porro are innocent. Darkblade (who was replaced by MadMax) came out voting Werebear. MadMax has stated herself that Darkblade investigated Werebear night 1 and got no result. I can imagine this as seeming suspicious. It's not much, but it's something.
Porro's first post, I believe, contained the comment "I do not believe that there would be a single mason" to claims that maybe the mason who was killed was on their own. On day 3, when the other mason is killed, his first post of the day was "Another mason dead ". I think he was quite trying to point out his masonhood without being too obvious. Well Porro, it worked.
As for me... I wish I'd done something that cleared my name... I do remember throwing in an early comment about "smoke and mirrors" but desisted from throwing in small Wizard/magic references after sweetwater came out with the knowledge of the Wizard. I didn't want to risk being outed.

I know these are just little things, particularly in my and Max's case, but they restore my confidence a little. In Porro's, it restores my confidence fully.

Normally when I do this, I take notes on every player's behaviour on each day. I have done so, but it slacked off a little towards the end as I started to put things together in my mind.

On day 1, TANS random votes Taf, a doc (fair enough, it's random) and then posts, I think, once more during that day to apologise for not posting much. She says that she has nothing to add at this stage. Green Crayons votes for jesternl, saying "I'm sure he's guilty". This is strange to me. Kd's results state nothing about Jester, IIRC, but he DID turn out to be guilty. Perhaps just a lucky guess. But yeah, there was no real justification behind that. Interesting.

On day 2, there is a pool of blood, and Sweetwater states that he's attempted to investigate Raist but something has stopped him. Raist was Monster mafia, as we later find out. Two players express suspicion of Raist. TANS and Kd. TANS states that perhaps there is "something about Raist that prevents sweetwater from finding out" while, at the same time, placing a vote on JDTAY. Kd also states suspicion of Raist. Maybe it's me reading too much into things, but to me this seems like mafia who have been hit with the sudden news that one of their members was investigated, and trying to "distance themselves" from him, so to speak. After all, it always helps to be able to say later that "I was suspicious of Raist all along!"

On day 3, TANSTAAFL, our resident lurker, votes for DMTsurel for (gasp!) lurking. Or, in her own words, "to ensure continued participation". Also in her own words, "I have no clue but want to keep the game moving". Kd, in the meantime, starts a bandwagon against Sweetwater. He reveals that he found The Wizard Of Oz (me). I was trying to state as clearly as I could without revealing anything that I trusted sweetwater. Most other people were still suspicious, but wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt; after all, he was a claimed cop. Kd, however, responded with another long attack.. and another... in fact, she pretty much doesn't relent at all. Also on day 3, I don't know whether or not this is relevant, but both TANS and Kd (along with myself) stated their unwillingness to be revealed as WOO, while MadMax and Porro stated that they were willing. (Like i said, don't know if it's relevant or not, just pointing out things I've noticed.)

Day 4: not much really goes on. MadMax and Porro FOS xer0x, Kd and TANS vote xer0x. Once again, no idea whether or not it's relevant.

Day 5: this is where TANSTAAFL stops posting. But she is voted for by Werebear who insists even at the point of death that despite his evilness, he's going for the town. He also seems very excited about wanting to get back into the game. *wonders if WB knows something we don't* Kd is on the Werebear bandwagon. not much to say there... we were all on the WB bandwagon, pretty much.

This is where I kinda lost track and just started scribbling stuff down. Other things I noted:
- TANSTAAFL's return has coincided with our first Godfather kill. I don't think a mafia group would ever send out their godfather to do the killing while there were some of the goons left, unless the Godfather insisted on it. Therefore, we at least know that the godfather of the Monster mafia was around at least for the time near night/morning.
- Kd has ignored the town's suspicions of TANSTAAFL completely, choosing to throw suspicion on the other cop claim, and then attack the claimed mason. It honestly looks to me like a mafia goon trying to protect her Godfather. Even possibly sacrificing herself in order to keep said scum alive, by putting herself so directly in the firing line. As I said before, it's not the kind of thing a mafia would do. That initially took my suspicions off Kd. Now I think she's desperate. After all, the Godfather is the most important mafia, and even if she (as mafia goon, IMO) does end up being killed, the godfather is at the very least safe from cop investigations.

I reckon we should lynch TANSTAAFL, personally. But like I said at the start, I'm not going to vote unless the town agrees with me. For all I know, I've got it completely wrong and there are two scum just waiting to pile the votes on. But yeah. In my opinion, Kd and TANS are the remaining baddies, and if TANSTAAFL is the godfather, it would be our best course of action to rid ourselves of her first.

[MadMax]

Mackay............My suspicions agree with yours.
I would though before voting Tantaafl like to hear Porro's
movie/character name.(3 Mafia /group...3 masons seems likely)

Should we not give the Mod a chance to find a replacement?
Though it would take a heck of a lot to remove suspicion from Tantaafl.

[Mackay]

If TANS is replaced, that's good. But I don't know if it would influence my suspicion now. But yeah, it'd be good to hear what she/her replacement has to say. I agree that we should at the very least hear a claim from Porro, but he is cleared in my mind, pretty much.

If TANS isn't replaced/doesn't speak up, I personally wouldn't let it stop me. But then, I'm convinced of her scumminess. I'm still definitely going to wait for the town to give the go-ahead.

[MadMax]

Porro, I kindly request you claim by Thursday night unless of
course Tantaafl is heard from.

Am attending a friend's funeral tomorrow.
Will post after midnight ENGLISH time Thursday.

[Mackay]

*hugs Maxine*

[MadMax]

Wipes tear on sleeve.
Thanx.

[Kd]

[NPOM] *hugs MM* [/NPOM]

Now, back to mafia...

*shakes head in dismay*

Originally posted by Porro:

---

It's not exactly rocket science to hold back role info in case a mafia claims the same role.

---

The word 'mafia' in that sentence could so easily be replaced with 'townie'. And please, don't insult my intelligence, that tends to make me angry, and that's not something I need right now. I don't believe I've been 'forcing' you to roleclaim, in fact, I haven't even asked. All I've done is point out in no uncertain words that holding back is far more suspicious than you make it out to be.

I'm still unsure whether to trust you totally. If you are a mason, you're not acting all that innocent. Now I will ask: please tell us more about your role. The rest of the town does not appear to be with me, you are apparently in no danger of being classed as 'scum' whatever happens, so there's no reason for you to keep this information to yourself any longer.

Originally posted by Mackay:

---

Kd, however, responded with another long attack.. and another... in fact, she pretty much doesn't relent at all...It honestly looks to me like a mafia goon trying to protect her Godfather.

---

Thankyou for noticing my attack patterns. However, my personal view is that keeping quiet doesn't help the town. I've chosen to be more vocal because I feel that sharing my suspicions and justifying them to you all will make a positive difference. *can't help but giggle at the word 'goon'* I don't feel I've been 'protecting' TANS, that would imply that I've preached about her innocence, when in fact I've hardly mentioned her, as you also pointed out.

You seem to know an awful lot about the way the mind of a mafia member works, Mackay... more than most people. However, as you've claimed to be the Wizard of Oz, maybe you've just been reading the thread too much. I'm not too sure what to think... IHMEOY in a big way.

Originally posted by MadMax:

---

Mackay............My suspicions agree with yours.

---

(See above) Also, MM, maybe it's just me, but for an investigator, you make unusually short posts.

As for TANSTAAFL... I've been avoiding trying to place suspicion on TANS, not because we're in league together, but because to try and accuse someone who hasn't said anything in so long is kinda stupid. There's no quotes to analyse, no odd behaviour (apart from lurking), it's pointless. Also, this would put unjustified suspicion on me, for attempting to point the finger with no substantial evidence to back it up.

I assure you that I'm on the town's side, and that these little outbursts of mine are designed to help the town in any way they can. It is my regret that my investigations could not have been of more use, and as such I must fight harder during the day to bring scum to justice.

[MadMax]

"Also, MM, maybe it's just me, but for an investigator, you make unusually short posts."

Kd; My short & to the point response is that there are 2 Mafia out there.
I beleive Mackay as WOO, and Porro as Mason is likely(still waiting full claim).
That leaves Tantaafl as the obvious Lynch and tomorrow whom-ever
is alive can make that decision then.

[MadMax]

OOPS forgot.......Thanx for hug.

[Werebear]

A replacement? DP! I'm here! Here! Take me! I'm here! *Waves paws wildly*

[Dragon Phoenix]

If only you would check your mailbox, where my email has been waiting patiently for 10 hours or so...

Werebear replaces TANSTAAFL. I will send the details now.

[Werebear]

My home email gets checked only in the evenings...

Gale Weathers, from SCREAM. Here's the scoop - reporter, once this game can send in a name to investigate. The next day, like it or not, publishes the result.

TANSTAAFL used this night 4 on Sweetwater, but didn't have to publish, as Sweetwater died. Yes, I know this conflicts with the "like it or not". No, there's nothing I can do about it. Yes, I know this looks really really bad. Yes, I will bet $100 that I am Gale Weathers from SCREAM, and that my abilities are exactly as described.

Now, something I've been dying to say since the day after I got killed.

Remember Damelon? Doc Holiday? The Godfather? Here you are, all saying "Oh, yeah, I believe in the Wizard of Oz"... but (!) you forget that Leonidas could get a different role for the godfather of the monsters mafia. Hannibal could very very well be lurking behind the Wizard, and our investigators would never know otherwise.

Along with role names, abilities are important, as Damelon had as much chance of actually protecting someone as a snowball in hell.

Do what you will, I have laid my cards on the table. Next post, I post suspicions. And please note the wording of the $100 bet doesn't leave a loophole like last time. *laugh* I wish Leonidas had taken me up on that....

[Werebear]

Here's what I have. Two of us are still killers for the monster mafia, including their godfather. The corleone mafia are gone, so is the ratty SK. If a townie is lynched, the game is over. Please consider that. Now, here's the claims I have so far.

code:

---

Madmax2   (x-darkblade)     - Axel Foley, Beverly Hills Cop (investigator)


Kd2       (x-Green Crayons) - Herbie the Love Bug (investigator)


Mackay                      - Wizard of Oz (???)


Porro     (x-Sniklac16)     - ??? (mason)


Werebear2 (x-Tanstaafl)     - Gale Weathers, SCREAM (reporter)

---

PLEASE, before you lynch anyone, especially me (*Grin*) let's get the last information. We have nothing to lose at this point by everyone revealing everything. Porro's name. Mackay's role. As a matter of fact, Mackay has my vote for being GF at this point in time. I'd like to go back and examine the investigations for MadMax and Kd2 as well. Anyone wanna post what they've found about the investigations?

[Porro]

IIRC didn't someone have the role of seeking out the WOO?

Or did he say he'd found the WOO but didn't want to reveal without consent?

Mackay has given me an itch I can't scratch, but I thought that the WOO was a cleared character, so I thought my gut was wrong (it's far from perfect).

You wanna claim kd?

You wanna claim madmax?

You people wanna claim?

Hang on then I need to turn on my 'e-mail computator'....

[Porro]

It's slow to boot...

BTW kd, please remind us of your investigation results (I'm lazy, tipsy, and tired), and if you didn't investigate other 'investigators' please explain why not.

[Porro]

AND
Werebear's claim sounds frighteningly familiar. Dis someone already claim that in this game, or was it in another??

[Porro]

Captain Paul Gilbert of 'Botany Bay' reporting for duty

[MadMax]

So these appear to be our masons:

Captain Paul Gilbert of 'Botany Bay' reporting for duty..........Porro
Beartalon/Jadesmar:
B=Gustave Flaubert from MADAME BAUVARY, a mason. You win when the town wins.
J=Rupert of Hentzau from THE PRISONER OF ZENDA, a mason.

[Mackay]

I already listed my ability, WB. I had a one-time self-protect. That was it. And I used it, stupidly, last night. I believed I was in danger because people trusted me. I'm glad to see you've settled for hurling suspicion in my general direction.

Speaking of role misspellings, I always thought it was "Gail Weathers" and not "Gale Weathers" but I haven't seen Scream for years and not researched that or anything, so don't take my word for it. Anyway, Kd's original role and Leonidas' role had alternate spellings, so it's not like I can start ringing the scum alarm on you there.

I'm *gulp* with Werebear on this one - my cards are on the table. I think he is the GF. He thinks the same about me, so I guess we're even. Heh. You all know what I think about his behaviour. I'm not going to attack his claim, I think it does that for itself. At first I was wondering whether the dodgy results that EVERYONE has been getting in this game was almost a way for them to prove themselves innocent, in a way - "If I were a mafia, don't you think I'd make up better night results?" - I think I'm starting to see this wielded to the mafia's advantage. It causes me to question everyone all over again.

Back to my ability - well, I guess it's as bad a claim as Werebear's or MadMax's. It can't be proven. You have only my word, and my word is only as good as anyone else's here. But yeah, WB - I guess you missed my claim of my ability, which I came out with on night 1. I wouldn't call it my "role", because part of being the Wizard, like I said, was that once exposed he was just a regular guy. So I guess what you would call my "role" is that I was able to protect myself against one night kill - on the condition that my role was not revealed.

Throughout this game, the roles of TANSTAAFL and Kd have seemed to be acting in a way that suggests, if not that they're working together, then that they were certainly conscious of the other's actions. And of Raist's. At least, it feels that way to me. Even you, Werebear, in your role as Freddy, placed a vote on TANSTAAFL. At a time when you admitted that you were going for the town. Admittedly though, it doesn't say what the reasoning in my votes was, so it could well have been simply a lurker vote.

Werebear raises a point with his comment about the WOO. An excellent point, which I feel stupid for overlooking. This has got me thinking about the nature of sweetwater's role. I know that he was a private investigator who got the names of the roles (as I may have pointed out the day he outed the WOO, what with my "I trust sweetwater" "I don't think we should lynch sweetwater" "I personally don't find his claim too hard to believe" etc, heh). But as Sam Spade, private investigator, do you think that he would get the actual real roles of the person? No matter what? I mean, he's a PI, and a bloody good one, I'd assume. It makes me wonder whether Spade would have been able to find out who a person really was, regardless of cover stories. Did he ever investigate Damelon? How about TANSTAAFL? And had he investigated Damelon, would he have been able to find out that the role was indeed Don Vito Corleone? (Disclaimer: I'm not stating that this is what I think it is, it's just a random thought that popped into my mind.)

I probably have more to say, but this is what immediately came to mind upon reading everyone's posts.

Oh, right. One more thing. *scratches Porro's itch, but with a slightly hurt expression on her face*

[Mackay]

Originally posted by me, just then:

---

Admittedly though, it doesn't say what the reasoning in my votes was, so it could well have been simply a lurker vote.

---

Buh. I have mafia on the brain. Notes. I meant that I didn't write down the reasoning for your vote in my notes.

[Werebear]

Someone investigated Mackay, and got "WOO". INstead of revealing who it was, they just left the role name open.

And I'm not sure if there was another reporter in this game, I don't think there was, but the list of the dead is right there. (I have to get back to my meeting before work lynches me IRL)

[Kd]

Originally posted by Werebear:

---

Now, something I've been dying to say since the day after I got killed.

---

Oh, you wanted to say something? I hadn't noticed... But back to the game...

[Mackay]

Originally posted by me:

---

But yeah, WB - I guess you missed my claim of my ability, which I came out with on night 1.

---

Yup. I'm stupid. I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote this post. I'd just woken up. By "night 1", I mean "today". Isn't it OBVIOUS? Yeah, it's, um, an, er, Aussie thing... yeah! An Aussie thing! We use the phrase "night 1" in place of the word "today". "G'day, mate, what are you doing night 1?" etc.

...oh gawd. I need sleep. I'll post something worthwhile whenever I wake up. (It's almost 20 to 7 in the morning here)

[Mackay]

Bah, and Kd posted while I was typing. Well, now I have something to discuss. The thought in my mind right now is, "WTF?!" I am seeing rats, and sinking ships. But it doesn't make sense! This does not make sense to me at all. It's only just hit me now that we have ANOTHER investigative role claim. And I spend ages analysing everyone's behaviour only to decide that Kd and WB are in it together, with WB as godfather, only to have Kd completely and suddenly change tack. It is the single scummiest act I have seen all game. She goes from hurling suspicion at everyone but Werebear, to hurling suspicion ONLY at Werebear! And we can't forget that until just then, she was voting for our most innocent-looking player.

I don't get it. Would a scum do something so blatantly scummy? And were WB Godfather, would she turn on him so quickly? Is it a tactic to save herself? A tactic to save him? A horrible, horrible mistake by an admittedly inexperienced player? A desperate scum trying to get anybody lynched? Or an overzealous townie even? I guess she did say that she was just waiting to hear from Werebear... I just don't understand this!

*is utterly confused*

[MadMax]

Wbear; I do not beleive your claim. Why you ask.

1: Why would Tanstaafl waste this one oportunity on a claimed cop
that is likely to be killed that night?

2: Why did Tanstaafl have so much problem making this claim if it was true.
Sounds like Tanstaafl could not come up with a beleivable claim/
felt she/he would be the obvious lynch & was letting herself be lynched
to save her fellow Mafia.

My belief is that definately of Mackay/Wbear 1=mafia/the other is townee.
Swaying strongly towards Wbear being Mafia.
I beleive Porro to be Mason. This leaves no dobt in my mind that Kd is Mafia.

My suggestion is lynch Kd.
2night I expect either porro or myself to be dead.
I say this as, if either mackay or wbear ends up dead the other is definatly mafia.
This will leave Porro or myself, Mackay and Wbear to make the final lynch.

Wbear I will reread the early Sweetwater posts carefully and if I find your arguement does make sense I shall profusely apologise.
I will

[MadMax]

The funeral was well attended by friends and family.
Dave had a fine send-off.
If he was watching he knows he was well-loved.

[MadMax]

I have reread Wbear..ALL 16 pages, my eyes are tired now.
I still disbelieve your claim for the same reasons as before,
but concede your point that WOO could be a mask to camoflage the remaining GF.

The read only convinced me more that kd2 is likely mafia.

1: these are one of her claimed findings.

Night Five: Werebear. According to the result I was given back,
I drove around all night but failed to locate the trailer.

I was the first to point out that I got a no-response from Wbear1.
This was post 468(01/07/2004 4;50)..post 452 I claimed cop.
Since my No-response coincides with your failed to locate trailer
you could have unvoted me in post 504, but did not.
You kept your vote on me til post 521(01/10/04 9:22). That is 3days 4hrs.

2;..... I don't like that you placed a vote on a claimed MASON
merely because he said he'd fully claim after Tans/Wbear2 did.

3:....You started the whole WOO thing by placing your vote and heavy suspicion on Sweetwater, then when WOO was named as night 1 find, and the conversation of WOO claiming
was at it's peak you come out with this
Kd
Mei Li De Hua Reply 326 posted 12-11-2003 02:37 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I personally don't think this is a good idea.
sweetwater has numerous ways to twist this to his advantage.
Revealing someone as the WOO, and then having them admit it, doesn't necessarily make it a valid claim,
especially if sweetwater and the person he reveals are working together.
Also, doing this would make you all believe that yes,
sweetwater is in fact an innocent cop, and I've been so evil and mistrusting, boo hoo hoo.
It would just be a setup to make him look good to us townies.
Sorry, I refuse to buy, and will continue to do so.
To quote you Kd "Sorry, I refuse to buy, and will continue to do so."
My vote would go on Kd at this point.

I have more but need time to make sense of it..I am Soooooooooooooooo tired.
night all.

[Werebear]

Originally posted by MadMax:

---

Wbear; I do not beleive your claim. Why you ask.
1: Why would Tanstaafl waste this one oportunity on a claimed cop
that is likely to be killed that night?

---

Check my fake claims as Werebear1. I chose the most obvious targets each night. Sweetwater was the source of great controversy that night... and it's possible a doc would have protected him.

quote:

---

2: Why did Tanstaafl have so much problem making this claim if it was true.
Sounds like Tanstaafl could not come up with a beleivable claim/
felt she/he would be the obvious lynch & was letting herself be lynched
to save her fellow Mafia.

---

Your point is invalid, TANSTAAFL didn't post at all. Lies or truth. I've no idea if her reluctance was because she didn't think she'd be believed, or just neglect of the game.

quote:

---

My belief is that definately of Mackay/Wbear 1=mafia/the other is townee.
Swaying strongly towards Wbear being Mafia.
I beleive Porro to be Mason. This leaves no dobt in my mind that Kd is Mafia.

---

I agree with the mason. You I'm more sure of, but not 100%. However, if you lynch me, the game is over. But please take my $100 bet first before you vote me, I could use the cash after the holidays.

quote:

---

My suggestion is lynch Kd.
2night I expect either porro or myself to be dead.
I say this as, if either mackay or wbear ends up dead the other is definatly mafia.
This will leave Porro or myself, Mackay and Wbear to make the final lynch.

---

Agreed. If I were remaining mafia, I'd think the same things. Leave the most controversial townies alive, and kill off the knowns.

quote:

---

Wbear I will reread the early Sweetwater posts carefully and if I find your arguement does make sense I shall profusely apologise.
I will

---

No apology needed, whether you decide I'm right or wrong. This *IS* mafia.

Oh, BTW, Mr. DP? Could you please put Werebear1's role up on the known role list? I was going to say something about my prior role, but don't feel I should unless you've posted it first... and he should have been dead long enough for you to post it.

[MadMax]

Porro
Cool as a cucumber Reply 621 posted 01-21-2004 09:09 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IIRC didn't someone have the role of seeking out the WOO?
Or did he say he'd found the WOO but didn't want to reveal without consent?

Sweetwater was asking if he should say who WOO was.
Some-one said that there could be a role with the aim of finding WOO,
so don't say who WOO is.

[Werebear]

Oh, Leonidas? You're welcome to take the bet too, even though you're dead in this game. I know you're still reading it.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Role of Freddy Kruger has been posted as requested.

[Mackay]

I can definitely see MM's logic behind voting for Kd. I'm torn, however, because I KNOW - I'm almost certain - that Werebear is the Godfather. I think it's pretty much been accepted amongst us that Kd is probably evil, but before this day ends, I'd at least like to know who she's working in league with. The answer to me is obvious. The only player other than Werebear I could possibly see her working with given her recent (and some not-so-recent behaviour) is Porro. But I'm not even going to THINK about that, because this town is in enough trouble as it is. Besides, it would have been unfair to the Corleone mafia if - oh! Imagine if one mafia group got a Godfather with a fake role claim that showed up in investigation, and the other were a mason! No, no, no, no, no, it's still too unbalanced, and too crazy, and too terrible to even think of.

So I'm sticking with my gut instinct that the two remaining mafia are Kd and Werebear. I will lynch Kd if that's what the rest of you want, but I urge you to try for the Godfather. That way we can get the Town's most dangerous adversary out of the way and leave us free to get rid of the goon tomorrow. However, I will certainly understand if we want to just off the one we're most certain of - it ensures us another day, but it also makes for a veeeeeeery difficult time tomorrow. I'm pretty certain that, should I survive today, I will definitely survive the night. I seem to have become quite the scapegoat. Not that I can blame Werebear of course, it's not like he was going to attack a claimed mason or a claimed cop... Kd already did all that for him. Of course there's also the chance that if we lynch Kd today then tomorrow I'll be left alive with Werebear and Porro, and Porro will sit back and laugh at myself and WB as we attack each other and then simply throw a vote on.... no! No no no no! Can't... think... about... godfather... masons... last time I contemplated that possibility, I got my fellow mason lynched, which then got ME lynched. Turns out we only had to vote for a no lynch to end the game. Sigh.

But really... I'm scared, and I want to get the Godfather today. But at this stage, certainty is probably better than security. If the rest of you (excluding Werebear) think that lynching Werebear today is a bad idea, I'm fine with getting rid of Kd first. I'm very very close to being certain of their guilt. And I'm never certain of anything. So yeah.