Einstein's Challenge

[Ghost Post]

ok here's what I got, but my friend got this, not me. I tried it 2x, but still got an error.

yellow norweigan dunhill water cats
blue dane blend tea horses
red brit pallmall milk birds
green german prince coffee fish
white swede bluemaster beer dogs

So the german owner of the green house who smokes Prince and drinks coffee, owns fishes.

[Ghost Post]

yes ... same solution ...
the first house on the left is Norwegian one
the second is Dane
#3 (right in the middle) is Brit
#4 is German
and #5 (on the right) is Swede

For the extra point, I suppose we have to know if brands of cigarettes were existing before Enstein died ..

[This message has been edited by DGA (edited 02-13-2000).]

[Dragon Phoenix]

Sure,I have the same solution. Can't believe that Einstein is the father, though. BUT: what if the houses are forming a nice circle (well, pentagon) instead of the obvious straight line??

[Ghost Post]

Well ... if houses are forming a nice circle, how could we explain the hint #8 (one house right in the center) ??
By a square with one house in each corner and one in the center ??
And what about the hint #9 (Norwegian in the first house) ?
Maybe we have 4 houses forming a square and one house in the center and each house with a number ? But what about the number one ? the house in the center ? and who are neighbours and who are not, in this case ?
I think we have to choose a start point so the "circle" has to be a straight line ....

Einstein died in 1955 ...so maybe is it possible but I don't believe he's the father, too ...

[This message has been edited by DGA (edited 02-14-2000).]

[This message has been edited by DGA (edited 02-14-2000).]

[Ghost Post]

its got nothing to do with einsteins death.. he was supposed to have written it b4 1900

either a brand of ciggarettes or one of the nationalities hadnt formed yet

[dave10000]

I've always taken issue with this puzzle. Why must ANYONE own fish?? Fish arent mentioned in any of the given facts -- couldn't the answer be: "No one owns fish -- the fifth pet is frogs."

Alternatively, what if we are asked to answer TWO questions -- (1) Who owns fish? (2) Who owns bats? NOW what would the answer(s) be? Since merely asking an additional question can't possibly change the correct answer to "Who owns fish?", then the answer to "Who owns fish?" simply can't be deduced with certainty from the facts stated in the problem.

Just my 2 cents.

-- dave10000

[Quailman]

The following site states that: "In 1939, American Tobacco Company introduces a new brand, Pall Mall, which allows American to become the largest tobacco company in the U.S.! "
http://www.bu.edu/cohis/smoking/about/history.htm#industry

[Ghost Post]

When I originally read the problem I didn't understand clue #4. I thought it meant that the green house was to the left of the white house but not necessarily next to it. Without this information the fish (or whatever animal) could be anywhere. For example:

norwegian green coffee blend FISH
german blue water prince cats
swede yellow milk dunhill dogs
brit red beer bluemaster horses
dane white tea pallmall birds

[hank]

I can't seem to solve this one. I could be hung up on the idea that the first house of the Norwegian, could be the furthest to the right as well as the furthest to the left. After all, house numbering on a street goes up in the same direction regardless of which side of the street you are looking at.

[Wonko the Sane]

I agree with all of the other answers. The problem with this puzzle is that the wording at two critical points is vague. Without clarification there are two possible solutions, as someone pointed out earlier. The first assumption that you must make is that the first out is on the left. We don't know this for sure, it just says "the first house". In Hebrew, that would mess everyone up. Second, it says that the green house is left of the white house, but not directly to its left. Stumped me for several minutes before I decided just to assume that the green house was directly to the left of the white one and I was able to solve this. Perhaps the Minotaur, in his infinite wisdom could edit this for the final posting, no matter what the original wording was.

Who else thinks that after you made those two assumption though, this puzzle was still pretty easy? Just asking, because I don't think this is nearly as hard as advertised.

[This message has been edited by Wonko the Sane (edited 02-15-2000).]

[Ghost Post]

Yeah, pretty good points ppl. I tried to do it so the white house is the left of the green house (in the green house's POV), but it didn't work out, so I still stick with my answer.

And why would Einstein waste his time with making this up? He would have used his time to thing of how time is passing as time passes...or something like that.

[Ghost Post]

the only conclusion about hint #4 is that white house can't be the first one (on the left) ... no conclusion about green house position (except not the fifth) ...
But by examining other hints, the only position for green house is the first one on the left of the white house .. not another position .. so it's not necessary to worry about that ...

[This message has been edited by DGA (edited 02-16-2000).]

[respo22]

One more point to ponder. The question is phrased " WHO OWNS FISH?". Not THE fish. Maybe FISH is the pets name. Its a cruel/funny trick but what if Einstein had a dog named Fish and he was using that to "fool" the reader. Just a thought I had.

Maybe we are looking into this puzzle too much, but otherwise it seems awfully easy.

[respo22]

if this message appear twice please forgive me, but I posted it before and I havent seen it yet. Since this is my first post I dont know how long it usually takes.

Here is a thought I had. The way the question is phrased, "WHO OWNS FISH?", makes me thing that FISH is the name of a pet (otherwise it should have said who owns the fish?). Im not an expert in language so if 'the fish' is incorrect English, then I am completely wrong and apologize.
I'm sure this isnt the case but I wanted to put my two cents in. Without coming up with these little side theories, the puzzle is kind of easy.

[Amy]

I really hope that the question about whether Einstein could have written this puzzle "in the last century" doesn't hinge on the nitpicky point of whether the year 2000 is really the last year of the 20th century or the first year of the 21st, because it's completely arbitrary what we choose to define as the dividing line between centuries. I suspect that is exactly what the Minotaur has in mind, though, because otherwise he would have said "in the twentieth century" rather than "in the last century."

[hank]

I believe the Minotaur did specify the 19th century. By the way, I went ahead and solved this puzzle making the assumptions that everyone seems to have accepted. I used to go on logic problem binges prior to my discovery of the grey labyrinth, and so I can only say that this problem although slightly tedious due to the number of variables involved is straight forward and therefore easy. Logic problems are often rated by difficulty. Out of 5 stars, this is a 3 star problem. I can't understand why the Minotaur would call it difficult. If I ever have the time, I am going to solve this problem assumingthe first house is on the far right.

[Amy]

You're right--he did say "19th century" at the beginning of the puzzle. So the answer to that question is clearly no, given the 1939 date for the introduction of Pall Malls cigarettes.

[Sofis]

Possibly he wrote something similar, but using some other thing in the place of cigarette brands. I recall solving a puzzle very much like this one, only the answer to that one was "the Japanese keeps zebras".

[Wonko the Sane]

Just responding to a couple of posts here.

All of the pet owners seem to own more than one of their type of fish. In this case, it is much more grammatically plausible to say simply fish instead of the fish, as the fish usually represents a singular/specific case of the word fish.
More things...the reason the puzzle you solved was different is because the use of cigarettes is not considered PC, so that was probably changed. I wouldn't be surprised if a few nationalities and pets got changed for whatever reasons. Probably copyright reasons or something. Anyway, just tossing that out.
One more thing, Dave1000, what is the point of a logic puzzle with no solution? There are two requirements for a logic puzzle. It must have a logical assumption and a logical answer. The logical assumption is that someone owns fish. Without that, it isn't even a puzzle. It's just a pathetic trick question, and in case you haven't noticed, Minotaur doesn't post pathetic trick questions much (I think Let There Be Light was the only one, and he said ahead of time that it had no solution, as I remember). All necessary information to solve the problem is contained within. That's stated in one of the first problems. I know some people might get off on trying to devalue puzzles, but it's really pointless. That's it for me. I'm open to flames...uhhh...cross-x....or whatever it is that happens here.

[hank]

Actually Amy, I think you were onto something here before I unintentionally steered you off course with my previous post. In the introduction of the puzzle, the minotaur refers to previous references (obviously recorded in the 20th century which is still very recent) that claim Einstein devised this puzzle in the previous century which at that time would be the 19th century. So far I don't think anyone would dispute this.

However the Minotaur poses his question during the 21st century ( I realize this is a moot point) and now the last century must refer to the 20th century. The Minotaur's question only asks if it is"possible" that Einstein authored this puzzle in the last century. Not being American, I don't know if all cigarette brands were around prior to 1955 but I assume they were and so the answer to part 2 is yes.

[Ghost Post]

Wonko ... I agree with you ..
Hank ... We are still in the 20th century .. I know lot of historians are thinking Christ is born a few years before his presumed date of birth but ... anyway ... that's another problem ...

[This message has been edited by DGA (edited 02-17-2000).]

[Wonko the Sane]

And all religious connotations aside, it doesn't matter. The 21st century doesn't start until next year. Has nothing to do with whatever religion anyone may be. The media may deem that this is the 21st century, but it isn't. This is still this 20th for another 10 or so months.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Hank wrote : "By the way, I went ahead and solved this puzzle making the assumptions that everyone seems to have accepted. I used to go on logic problem binges prior to my discovery of the grey labyrinth, and so I can only say that this problem although slightly tedious due to the number of variables involved is straight forward and therefore easy. "
I solved a variation of this puzzle about half a year ago, challenged by one of my staff. The wording may have been slightly different, which may explain my earlier posting on the circle. My mistake, I should have read the exact wording this time. Anyway, I solved it in 5 min and would agree it was quite straightforward, but only 2 of my 15 staff solved it after many attempts. I am not quite sure what conclusion to draw from that though.....

[CrystyB]

5 minutes? WOW! You outdid me... Congratulations!

Here's what i posted to some other question very similar to this (I HOPE it had the exact same hints):
">Einstein Quiz.
I did it in 22 mins. But what helped me were 25 tiny bits of paper, each with the nationality or color-of-house or beverage or pet or cigar-brand on it AND one hypothesis:
that >4 - The green house is on the left of the white house
means that the green house is DIRECTLY "on the left" of the white house.
If 4 would mean GENERALLY "on the left" of the white house, we could have this arrangement:

code:

---

-bird- --cat- -dog- -horse --fish-


PallM. Prince Blend BlueM. Dunhill


-green -blue- white --red- -yellow


-Norw- -Germ- -Swe- -Brit- --Dane-


coffee -water -milk -beer- --tea--

---

(found it in 8 more minutes) or

code:

---

-bird- ****** -dog- ******* -horse


PallM. Prince Blend Dunhill BlueM.


-green -blue- white -yellow --red-


-Norw- -Germ- -Swe- --Dane- -Brit-


coffee -water -milk --tea-- -beer-

---

(7 or less) or

code:

---

-bird- ****** horse ******* --dog-


PallM. Prince Blend Dunhill BlueM.


-green -blue- -red- -yellow -white


-Norw- -Germ- -Brit --Dane- --Swe-


coffee -water -milk --tea-- -beer-

---

(9 or less) or

code:

---

-fish- --cat- --dog-- -horse -bird-


-Blend Prince Dunhill BlueM. PallM.


-green -blue- -yellow --red- -white


-Norw- -Germ- --Swe-- -Brit- -Dane-


coffee -water --milk- -beer- --tea-

---

(4 more minutes - that makes an hour 'wasted' on this problem!)
Note: those '*'s can be replaced by either 'cat' or 'fish'.

>Who has fish for pets?
"ascii(52)ascii(116)ascii(104)", "ascii(80)ascii(114)ascii(105)ascii(110)ascii(99)ascii(101)", "ascii(103)...", "ascii(71)..." or "ascii(99)..."? (solved in the first 22 minutes)
I made that in an editor with the possibility to view the current character's code, I DO NOT have such a long memory as to remember all the codes."

Guess it shows i use backtracking a lot, huh?

[This message has been edited by CrystyB (edited 03-20-2003 08:58 AM).]

[Wonko the Sane]

I just used a chart...solved it in about 15 minutes...almost all of that time was spent mulling over whether to put the green house directly to the left of the white. If I hadn't done that it probably would have only taken 5 to 10 mins.

[Aaron]

Hi all,

This is my first posting, and first time looking at this site. nice puzzles! I just solved the einstein puzzle in about 5 mins, and also wonder why it was considered so difficult in the introduction. There are a LOT of other puzzles in the archives which have lower ratings which are much more difficult as they require a laterial approach rather than pure logic. I was wondering who it is who decides the difficulty of your puzzles?
Oh well, keep them coming, I'll be back to visit lots more times from now on.

Cya,
Aaron.

[Wonko the Sane]

The puzzles aren't sorted by difficulty. They're sorted by popularity. The people that visit here vote for a puzzle based on how much they like it and then they get automatically catagorized and posted like that. At least that's how I understand it to work.

[ali yuksel]

the german has the fish
also i did this by reducing the number of choices that the swedish has and then the rest was just putting the things in

is there any other mathematical method to solve this without trial nad error method??

thanks if you reply

[Ghost Post]

I think that the best way to solve this problem is to use a chart with 25 lines (5 for countries, 5 for drinks, 5 for cigarettes, 5 for pets and 5 for color...) and 25 columns (5 for house position, 5 for color, 5 for pets, 5 for cigarettes and 5 for drinks) ... So by that way , you've got 15 big squares 5x5 .. (in french, it's called "logigramme")... the other 10 squares are not used (because no square necessary for color in X corresponding to color in Y,for pets in X corresponding to pets in Y ... )
After that, you just have to read the hints and put a "yes" or a "no" in each little square ...
By that way, the puzzle is solved in 5-10 minutes without trial and error method...


[This message has been edited by DGA (edited 02-20-2000).]

[Ghost Post]

two reasons that einstein couldnt have written this:
At least one of the brands of ciggarettes was not around in the 19th century, and
surely he would have known that more than %20 of people can solve it, seeing as there are five choices to pick of the puzzle, and the puzzle is really just 'Who owns fish?'

[Dragon Phoenix]

"The green house is on the left of the white house". This is indeed not only ambiguous, but ambibiguous. Yes, we are apparently supposed to assume it is left and adjacent, but we are also to assume it is left as we are looking to the house form the outside. If you asked the occupant of the white house, he would say that the green house is on the right side..... right?

[AEK1234]

This puzzle is really easy if you don't start analyzing it so much. I liked it a lot, because it was something I could solve and I like logic puzzles. The houses in th answer were arranged in a straight line, but I solved it with the houses arranged like so:

House 1 House 2
House 5
House 3 House 4
So it is possible as long as you pick a center house.

[Ghost Post]

I think all of you are wrong. First of all they don't give ANY information on a fish right? So at the end they said "WHO HAS FISH"
How would you know. The last person could have a turtle. So the answer is "you dont have enough information to know." If they had listed the animals at the begining it would be correct. But since nothing described a fish the German could have had a turtle or any other animal.

[Dragon Phoenix]

All of us? According to your line of thinking, Dave10000 is right...... (see one of the earlier replies in this thread).

[Ghost Post]

Sorry i never read 31 replies.Only a few

[Ghost Post]

i started off using a 25 by 25 grid then i realized that this problem wasnt that hard and i thought it through and came up with the german

[Ghost Post]

I thought this puzzle was very easy. I did it within 30 minutes. Being at the age of 12 i consider that good. You have to find things that go with each outher then put them together.

------------------
Justin St.Clair

[azu]

actually originally the problem didnt have the ninth clue i.e. the norwegian lives in the first house.The problem is still pretty easy but the solution is a bit more interesting from a logical sense.

[majo]

guys, the puzzle was originally written in german AND with different brands of cigarettes!!! and those cigarettes existed even before 1900!!!

[Phil]

i did this in 15 minutes and im only 16 years old. is that good? because i dont know what is a good time for this puzzle.