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Raearia
Daedalian Member
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 Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:50 pm Post subject: 281 |
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[quote="3iff"]
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| However, I see this claim almost as if MNO really doesn't want to play (he said he had intended to take a break) and is just looking for a quick lynch or NK as way out. |
[quote="spyrl"]
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I can't believe that someone of the calibre of MNO would deliberately try and get himself lynched because he doesn't want to play a game.
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To set it straight, I was not insinuating anything and you had already been defended in regards to it anyways.
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10289 is the end! |
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:12 am Post subject: 282 |
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| Undercover Monk wrote: |
| lost my job this week dealing with some real life issues revolving around that dont have a real grip on the situation but I find sentrans not a hammer vote to be particularly damning. I think Amb laid a brilliant trap and caught himself a scum. Vote: Sentran |
Sorry to hear you've lost your job.
I'm not sure what you mean by a trap Amb laid. I found Amb's whole note (warning us that he's going to hammer if the vote gets to L-1) to be somewhat scummy; the whole absolving one's self of guilt in advance never smells right to me. In any case, if you think it was some brilliant trap, then he might have "caught" me and I know I'm town. I've had MNO second on my list for a while and was considering switching to him, anyway. I'm getting tired of the first day nonsense and basically ready for it to be done, and I might have voted on that basis. So, if you think it was some clever trap that only a scum would have voted into, I beg to differ. I think that there are legitimate reasons to vote MNO and I don't blame anyone for doing it, Amb's "brilliant trap" or not.
Actually, now that Sentran has put MNO at L-2, I considered voting for MNO just so I could test if Amb was telling the truth about his plans. I could see an Amb-scum making that claim in order to keep others from putting his buddy at L-1. But I considered that it is at least as likely that Amb-scum would make that claim about a town-MNO. On the other, other hand, it is also likely that Amb-town would say that, since he HAS shown a propensity for hammering.
I guess I'll leave my vote where it is. But I would still like an explanation (from UMonk) of what you feel was Amb's brilliant trap. |
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Undercover Monk
Professor Chaos
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:13 am Post subject: 283 |
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Its always dangerous to speak for someone else but by telling us he was gonna hammer amb took the danger for a scum to jump on. sentran was essentially hammering but also avoiding the stigma associated with a hammer. I dont know to me it seems very opportunistic.
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The Classic Blunders:
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2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning |
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:53 am Post subject: 284 |
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Well, unless I miscounted, Sentran's vote only brought it to L-2.
Also, I don't quite see how setting up for someone else who has claimed he will hammer is worse than claiming and then doing it. It sounds a little like the kidnapper with a gun to the kid's head, who says to put down your gun or he'll shoot the kid. When you don't comply soon enough and he shoots, he claims that it's your fault, that you caused it, because he told you what to do to avoid it. |
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:23 pm Post subject: 285 |
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I still do not understand this "the hammer is scummy" business. If eight people all think the same person is scummy, one of them will be the hammer, but that one will receive all of the attention. Why is that? It took all of them to make it happen, and each had reasons for what they did. Additionally, does the scumminess of the hammer change if the person flips scum? It seems premature right now to make such a judgment.
I believe Zag is correct about the number of votes, but regardless I would ask what is scummy about calling Amb's bluff as it were?
_________________
Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting. |
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MNOWAX
0.999... of a Troll
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:58 pm Post subject: 286 |
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it's not, Amb goal in life would be to lynch me. Just as much if he got close I would love nothing more than the satisfaction of hammering his corpse to the wall.
Ambtown would hammer me just as quickly as Ambscum. I can pretty much guarantee he's not bluffing.
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX |
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3iff
very unbifflike
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:02 pm Post subject: 287 |
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I agree with Zag and Jedo about the 'hammer (not) being scummy' situation, especially on day 1. I also remember Amb being the hammer on numerous occasions in past games and enjoying doing it.
Pre-announcing an intention to hammer on later days might have different implications, but day 1? |
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:44 pm Post subject: 288 |
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So, Amb can get away with hammering without suspicion, but the person who places the vote before Amb is now the most suspicious? What kind of stupid double-standard are we operating from here? Seriously, I think the collective town has some of the stupidest "scum tells."
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting. |
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Sentran
Ray of Sucking Funshine
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:09 pm Post subject: 289 |
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My own confusion is why I am looking scummy for a hammer I did not make, while Amb is squeaky clean for stating that he will hammer if given the opportunity. Now that UM is back, I would like to pose a question to him.
UM: You and Jedo are frequently of a like mind in Mafia games. Have his comments this game seemed to be in accordance with your own thoughts and feelings?
Jedo: Is the same also true for you in regards to UM?
_________________
Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland |
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:46 pm Post subject: 290 |
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| 3iff wrote: |
I agree with Zag and Jedo about the 'hammer (not) being scummy' situation, especially on day 1. I also remember Amb being the hammer on numerous occasions in past games and enjoying doing it.
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For the record, that's not what I said, though I think that a hammer now would not be especially suspicious. (In spite of what Jedo pointed out last game, I still think that an early Day 1 hammer is suspicious, and I was right last game, at least, but we left 'early' behind a long time ago.)
What I tried to say is what Jedo said much better
| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| So, Amb can get away with hammering without suspicion, but the person who places the vote before Amb is now the most suspicious? |
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Sentran
Ray of Sucking Funshine
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:54 pm Post subject: 291 |
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| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| So, Amb can get away with hammering without suspicion, but the person who places the vote before Amb is now the most suspicious? |
How far could this insanity run? If I state that I have a standard practice of voting someone whenever they hit L-2, and Amb has the standard practice of hammering, it will put the suspicion yet another person back. Soon, everyone would have a stated action, and only the first person to vote would be suspect as everyone else was just following their given play method. I realize this is an exaggeration, but I'm trying to explain why we should look at what a person says or does not say more than their choice of when to vote.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland |
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3iff
very unbifflike
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:06 pm Post subject: 292 |
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| Quote: |
| For the record, that's not what I said, though I think that a hammer now would not be especially suspicious. |
THAT's what I'm agreeing with. Sorry for the confusion. I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth.
Agreed that an early day 1 hammer would be suspicious but that time has passed.
I'm still rather concerned that it's just a few of us playing here...too many absent voices (who will no doubt pop up here to say nothing before they slip back to the shadows). |
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Garou_Kinfolk
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:37 pm Post subject: 293 |
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Sorry I had seemed to disappear there for a while. Life snuck up on me. I did want to check in and say I've been watching the forum but didn't have time to post.
Unvote
I seem to have forgotten to do that earlier.
As for the MNOWAX lynch, I can see it from both sides and will look at those who were pushing for his lynch if he turns up town or those who were supporting him if he turns up scum. I'll also be looking at who he interacts with and how. As of right now, I have no read on him one way or the other.
Anyway, I have to get back to work now.
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Most posts made from my phone. |
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spyrl
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:55 pm Post subject: 294 |
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UM, sorry to hear about your situation, those dang hallways in between the one door opening and another closing, can be a royal pain.
I see the whole Amb declaring that he was going to hammer thing to be a bit of a null. It seems like in the past games that I've played with him, the only one to be happier to be the hammer is MNO. So for him to declare that he's going to be the hammer, well, not much of a shocking surprise there for day 1 voting.
Sentrans switch was a bit eyebrow raising, but I didn't see the "scum trap" that Amb seemed to imply that it was.
A hammer to me isn't necessarily automatically scummy. It's more about the hammer situations. Did they hammer so fast as to prevent conversation? Was there something about the way that they hammered that made it scummy? Things like that are what define if it's scummy or not to me, just like if it was a regular vote and not the hammer.
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"And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head." Terry Pratchett, Maskerade
Discworld Mafia is here! |
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MNOWAX
0.999... of a Troll
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:05 pm Post subject: 295 |
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| spyrl wrote: |
UM, sorry to hear about your situation, those dang hallways in between the one door opening and another closing, can be a royal pain.
I see the whole Amb declaring that he was going to hammer thing to be a bit of a null. It seems like in the past games that I've played with him, the only one to be happier to be the hammer is MNO. So for him to declare that he's going to be the hammer, well, not much of a shocking surprise there for day 1 voting.
Sentrans switch was a bit eyebrow raising, but I didn't see the "scum trap" that Amb seemed to imply that it was.
A hammer to me isn't necessarily automatically scummy. It's more about the hammer situations. Did they hammer so fast as to prevent conversation? Was there something about the way that they hammered that made it scummy? Things like that are what define if it's scummy or not to me, just like if it was a regular vote and not the hammer. |
I absolutely agree with this. I think that is the major misconception here. It's not the hammer itself that is scummy, but rather why. A lot of things can be inferred from it, and it can depend on the mod how much info post hammer is let loose.
Also, If it comes down to it, I'm more apt to hammer myself.just to take the pleasure away from Amb.
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX |
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:08 pm Post subject: 296 |
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| spyrl wrote: |
| Sentrans switch was a bit eyebrow raising, but I didn't see the "scum trap" that Amb seemed to imply that it was. |
Let's be precise. Amb never said he had made a trap. He even said that he voted for Sentran because Sentran has been in on multiple bandwagons. It was UM who called it a trap. (If Amb had called it a trap when voting Sentran, I probably would be voting for him -- Amb -- right now.) |
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spyrl
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:36 pm Post subject: 297 |
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| Zag wrote: |
| Let's be precise. Amb never said he had made a trap. He even said that he voted for Sentran because Sentran has been in on multiple bandwagons. It was UM who called it a trap. (If Amb had called it a trap when voting Sentran, I probably would be voting for him -- Amb -- right now.) |
Touché, it was the subsequent conversations about a trap and being scummy that I was thinking of. What I should have said was the "scum trap" conversation that began with Amb's vote.
_________________
"And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head." Terry Pratchett, Maskerade
Discworld Mafia is here! |
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:49 pm Post subject: 298 |
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To get this out of the way, Monk hasn't said much for which I can evaluate my agreement. However, I will say this most recent thing is something with which I disagree, as I think is apparent with my response.
| spyrl wrote: |
| A hammer to me isn't necessarily automatically scummy. It's more about the hammer situations. Did they hammer so fast as to prevent conversation? Was there something about the way that they hammered that made it scummy? Things like that are what define if it's scummy or not to me, just like if it was a regular vote and not the hammer. |
This is a good articulation of a good approach to hammers. I would add that there should also be some evaluation of the alignment of the hammered person in relation to the potential alignment of the hammer-er.
I think it is fine for Amb to be free of suspicion when he hammers if that is indeed his meta, just like I don't feel I should ever be suspected for bandwagoning. You can disagree with the thought behind it or the action of doing it, but if that's what I consistently do, you cannot use it as evidence that I am scum. Obviously I bandwagon even when I'm town to help myself as scum later. (In that sense, it isn't the most town thing for me to do, but this wouldn't be very competitive if I only played like scum when I was scum. Of course, there's also many more intricacies involved, but that should suffice for now.)
I just realized I don't really know why I was writing all of that. I'm sure it had something to do with evaluating meta is fine if that's actually their meta. I think everybody probably has something which might appear scummy when somebody else does, but this person does it so consistently that it isn't scummy for them. I think we should recognize and incorporate that when we are evaluating people.
_________________
Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting. |
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Amb
Amb the Hitched.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:32 pm Post subject: 299 |
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I didn't lay a trap. I wish I could claim that I did. But I interpretted UM as thinking my trap was the whole Jedo argument.
The major reason I always hammer when I can, except when I have a really damned good reason not to, is due to this:
1. When I am scum, I often go to L-1 and manage to bull crap my way out of being lynched when it's perfectly obvious I should be lynched.
2. Often in that scenario, I manage to get other power town lynched.
Because of the sheer amount of times that I get away with it, I do not allow other people the same luxury. I shouldn't be allowed that luxury either. I probably won't ever get it again. But I have had it many times.
The reality is, most townies know that 1 townie dying doesn't equate a big drop in the town chances - even if that townie was a cop or a doc. But the scum know that a drop on them reduces their chances a lot more. Meaning they have a more vested interested in staying alive. Even if people disagree wildly, I have used the same strategy for years in this game. |
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Dragon Phoenix
Judge Doom
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:24 am Post subject: 300 |
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Screw this, we need a lynch.
Unvote Zag
Vote Mnowax
Keeping in mind that role blocker is an effective claim for scum. No guarantee that it is in the game, no clear way to prove it.
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My photography:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/artrock2006/ |
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Amb
Amb the Hitched.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:56 pm Post subject: 301 |
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Unvote; Vote MNOWAX
I guess our rivalry continues... |
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Sniklac16
Spaciest of aides
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:07 am Post subject: 302 |
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If I counted correctly that's a lynch? No more discussion unless you can confirm or deny my count. Death scene will come soon when I have more time
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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us. |
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Sniklac16
Spaciest of aides
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:18 am Post subject: 303 |
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It was dusk and two lone figures stood face to face as the wind whipped around them making an eerie scene. MNOWAX stood on one side, Amb the other. "It's over MNOWAX, you've been too quiet for too long" yells Amb, and before he could do anything to protect himself Amb brought down the hammer.
MNOWAX David Garver mafia roleblocker lunched day 1
With that it is now night...deadline for night choices is Sunday Nov 25th
_________________
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us. |
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Sniklac16
Spaciest of aides
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:02 pm Post subject: 304 |
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Day breaks and there are 2 people missing, upon further investigation 2 bodies are found:
Zag - Keith Williams Tracker Killed night 1
Amb - Pvt Kelly Doctor Killed night 1
It is now day, with 12 alive it'll take 7 to lynch
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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us. |
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Amb
Amb the Hitched.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:12 pm Post subject: 305 |
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I had a gut feeling that was about to happen. 
Good luck town. |
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:20 pm Post subject: 306 |
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First things first, I'm just going to guess the theme is Clint Eastwood roles.
_________________
Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting. |
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:10 pm Post subject: 307 |
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Here's the vote count at the end of yesterday:
MNOWAX (8) - 3iff, spyrl, Jedo the Jedi, Leonidas, Raearia, Sentran, Dragon Phoenix, Amb,
Jedo the Jedi (1) - MNOWAX
Sentran (2) - esme, Undercover Monk
Dragon Phoenix (1) - Zag
Amb (1) - the great crep'er
not voting: raekuul, Garou_Kinfolk
--------------------------------------------------
A few notable activities from the end of yesterday:
- Dragon Phoenix switching to get the lynch, as if there wouldn't have been a lynch because of the deadline in a few hours anyway. (bussing a buddy?)
- Sentran's "eleventh hour" switch to MNO. (bussing a buddy?)
- Monk putting the third vote on Sentran for a pretty innocuous thing at the time (we didn't know MNO was scum yet). (diverting attention away from the scum?)
- People who never voted for MNO (once it was serious): TGC*, esme, Monk, raekuul, and Garou (distancing from a buddy?)
*TGC was absent long before that took place, so he has an excuse for not voting MNO.
---------------------------------------------------
And information of last post and post counts (adjusted for pre-game chatter):
DP - November 18, 20 posts
Jedo - November 16, 52 posts (Apparently I'm prolific.  )
spyrl - November 16, 14 posts
Garou - November 16, 18 posts
3iff - November 16, 17 posts
Sentran - November 16, 18 posts
Monk - November 16, 6 posts*
Raearia - November 15, 12 posts
esme - November 13, 5 posts
raekuul - November 12, 11 posts
Leonidas - November 9, 3 posts
TGC - November 2, 7 posts
Lurker by date: esme, raekuul, Leonidas, TGC
Lurker by post count (below town avg. of 13-15): Monk*, Raearia, esme, raekuul, Leonidas, TGC
*Monk cited that he was having real life issues.
_________________
Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting. |
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Sniklac16
Spaciest of aides
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:14 pm Post subject: 308 |
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JEDO GUESS THEME CORRECTLY, HE RECEIVES 1 FULL DAY AND NIGHT OF PROTECTION. THAT MEANS HE CANNOT BE LYNCHED OR NIGHT KILLED
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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us. |
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Raearia
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:26 pm Post subject: 309 |
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Well this is interesting, time to go through everyone's posts again! Thanks Jedo for your recap of what you found notable.
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10289 is the end! |
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:32 pm Post subject: 310 |
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I don't usually do all of that work for analysis, but I'm procrastinating a term paper. 
Anyway, this is when I wish I was a savant because I'm pretty sure that information can yield another scum. Here are some considerations:
- Most likely there is a scum not on the lynch wagon. (Considering those who know the recent drama of Zag's Secret Theme game in which Monk could see how many mafia were on the lynch, the mafia generally think to keep one person different.)
- There is probably a mafia in the lurker list, though I would look in the overlap (esme, raekuul, Leonidas, TGC).
- The non-lynching mafioso could satisfy both of these.
- A mafioso probably hopped on MNO after I turned the attention on him.
Those are just some general trends I think you see from the history of mafia. I offer them simply as directions for focusing. I myself will be keeping an eye on those who satisfy those trends. This is not based on content. I believe content will yield a much more accurate result on scum.
Personally, I'm going to vote: Garou_Kinfolk. Now that MNO is confirmed scum, I do believe I was right in thinking that Garou was trying to help out his buddy. Garou kept his vote on me for most of the day (because of what he later admitted was a misunderstanding), then strangely unvoted near the end of the day without taking a stance on the MNO lynch. The only reservation I have is that it seems so blatant, but that isn't currently enough to sway me away from this view.
Preview Edit: At least the mafia can't nab the immunity now. Two deaths last night helped, though I would gladly have preferred to keep both of those players...with worthwhile roles no less.
_________________
Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting. |
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:46 pm Post subject: 311 |
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| Bah! Go Town! |
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Sniklac16
Spaciest of aides
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:26 pm Post subject: 312 |
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DUE TO INACTIVITY FROM THE GREAT_CREPER NOT POSTING IN OVER 3 WEEKS AND NOT RESPONDING TO MY PM'S JADESMAR IS TAKING HIS PLACE
_________________
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us. |
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jadesmar
Bad Puppy
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:57 pm Post subject: 313 |
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Hiya,
Reading thread.
unvote
In case I'm voting for someone. |
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Dragon Phoenix
Judge Doom
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:13 pm Post subject: 314 |
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I was looking for the game thread.... took me a while to realize that this was the one. Anyway, the killing of Zag blows my main subject of day one out of the water. Need a re-read first.
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My photography:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/artrock2006/ |
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Garou_Kinfolk
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:25 pm Post subject: 315 |
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I just wanted to respond to this real quick before heading to work.
| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| Personally, I'm going to vote: Garou_Kinfolk. Now that MNO is confirmed scum, I do believe I was right in thinking that Garou was trying to help out his buddy. Garou kept his vote on me for most of the day (because of what he later admitted was a misunderstanding), then strangely unvoted near the end of the day without taking a stance on the MNO lynch. The only reservation I have is that it seems so blatant, but that isn't currently enough to sway me away from this view. |
I believe my quote below should answer most of the statements posted above, but I will clarify.
| Garou_Kinfolk wrote: |
Sorry I had seemed to disappear there for a while. Life snuck up on me. I did want to check in and say I've been watching the forum but didn't have time to post.
Unvote
I seem to have forgotten to do that earlier.
As for the MNOWAX lynch, I can see it from both sides and will look at those who were pushing for his lynch if he turns up town or those who were supporting him if he turns up scum. I'll also be looking at who he interacts with and how. As of right now, I have no read on him one way or the other.
Anyway, I have to get back to work now. |
When my misunderstanding was cleared up, I had meant to unvote. I was rushed and had forgotten to do that. At that point I wanted to reread the forum without the "confirmation bias" that I had on Jedo earlier. I hadn't voted for MNOWAX for the reason I had posted and wanted to, again, reread the thread for anything I might have missed. We then went to night before I could finish my reread.
I'm sorry to see that we've lost 2 town roles. I'm personally hoping the second killing power is a vig. and not an s.k.
That's all for now. Have to get going to work.
_________________
Most posts made from my phone. |
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Sentran
Ray of Sucking Funshine
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:26 pm Post subject: 316 |
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I had started to go through Amb's voting record to see who might have reason to kill him off, when something else occurred to me. I looked to see if anyone had voted MNO then unvoted, but I could not find any. I'm also getting the kids ready to send to school, so I could have missed it in my haste. Can anyone else find anything like this?
Next I thought to look for anyone following MNO in his vote for Jedo. Guess what I found? Garou was the next vote in the game, and for Jedo. He didn't unvote Jedo until MNO was at L-2. Considering that Garou was also on the list of never having voted for MNO, I think we found a partner.
Vote: Garou Kinfolk
_________________
Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland |
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:25 pm Post subject: 317 |
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I think the wording of my post was a little unclear. First, I see that it wasn't "most of the day" since the Day was nearly a month and Garou's vote was only on me for a week. My point was that your entire attack ended up amounting to a "misunderstanding," and your suspicion evaporated like that. If it is your approach to ask for clarification before voting (as you did with the mod and MNO), why did you not employ the same here? It seems it would have saved some time. Instead, I'm just not suspicious any more.
Second, I am pretty sure there was enough on MNO to have at least some read on him. You knew the claims he had made about his absence, so I would think those would at least provide something of a read on him. Saying you "can see it from both sides" is a pretty wishy-washy statement, one which scum usually make. Plus, I don't think it's particularly good policy to look only at the lynch in the case of a town flip or only against the lynch in the case of scum. It's either naive that you think there are not scum opposing a town lynch or bussing their buddy, or you are protecting your buddy(s) on the lynch. I think you have played enough not to be naive.
@Sentran, I hadn't noticed he was the first to vote me after MNO. I'm not sure how incriminating that is, though it could easily be trying to stack the wagon against me. I don't remember seeing any MNO unvotes after I started after him. I also haven't taken the time to analyze Amb's and Zag's posts for clues. I can only procrastinate so much.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting. |
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Sentran
Ray of Sucking Funshine
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:47 pm Post subject: 318 |
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I'm still watching Jedo very closely due to his slip yesterday. As I've stated many times, all are guilty until proven innocent. Then again, in looking over some of Amb's day 1 play, I see that he switched votes a lot. I would think him scum if he wasn't killed last night. Maybe a Vig thought the same way.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland |
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Garou_Kinfolk
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:32 pm Post subject: 319 |
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I will be posting when I can get to a computer. The items I would like to bring up/respond to make it far too long to do from my phone. I don't know if it will be tonight or not, so thanks in advance for your patience (if that's why no one is posting.)
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Most posts made from my phone. |
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Garou_Kinfolk
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:40 am Post subject: 320 |
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I got onto a computer finally.  Anyway, here's what I've got to say. Sorry in advanced. It's a wall post. I usually don't do them, but it was bound to happen eventually.
First thing is to reply to the posts from today since my last post.
@Sentran:
Amb spoke out against: Jedo, MNOWAX, Raekuul, TGC, Zag and Sentran, 3iff. That's the order of most outspoken to least.
Amb voted for Raekuul, TGC, Zag, Jedo, Sentran, and MNOWAX.
Those who voted for Amb are Zag and TGC.
No one voted then unvoted MNOWAX.
Your theory about scum following MNOWAXs vote after he comes in is logical, but knowing I'm town I can say that it's wrong. Here's another logical theory that I'd like opinions on:
MNOWAX "comes into" the game and follows a scum buddies vote. Since he voted for Jedo in that same post he came in with and didn't change it at all, that leaves only Amb and Sentran as those who were voting for Jedo at that time. With Amb dead and confirmed town, that just leaves Sentran (you) for the only one who MNOWAX could follow.
@Jedo:
I was suspicious of you for appearing to go against your own policy and contradicting yourself about how many bandwagons there were. Both ere cleared up sufficiently and I had little left on which to suspect you. I didn't give "the slip" much thought after you had clarified that as well.
With MNOWAX being absent, I did what I, and others, had done in previous games. I asked for the Mod to prod him. This is the first time I've seen anyone get flak for it. With you it was a misunderstanding. With MNOWAX it looked like an absent player. If I had known that I was attacking you over a misunderstanding, then I wouldn't have been attacking you at all, and would have asked for the clarification right away.
I wasn't suspicious of MNOWAX at the time because I hadn't gotten that far in my reread. I had tunnel vision and needed to look at the game with a fresh point of view.
I honestly could see it from both sides, which is why I posted as such.
| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
Plus, I don't think it's particularly good policy to look only at the lynch in the case of a town flip or only against the lynch in the case of scum. It's either naive that you think there are not scum opposing a town lynch or bussing their buddy, or you are protecting your buddy(s) on the lynch. I think you have played enough not to be naive. |
Could you please clarify this? I've read it about a dozen times and haven't been able to wrap my head around it. Thanks. 
@Sentran again:
Amb switched his vote as many times as DragonPhoenix. The difference is Amb did most of it in the later half while D.P. did most of his in the earlier half.
And now I'd like to say just a couple of my reads so far.
Town (from most to least):
Me (No surprise)
Jedo
3iff
Raearia
Spyrl
Neutral/No Read:
Esme
Leo
Raekuul
TGC/Jadesmar
U.Monk
Scum (From Most to Least):
Sentran
D.P.
This post is getting long enough, so I'll explain the two extremes of the Scum/Town list above.
Jedo (Town): In the last Secret Theme game modded by Zag, Jedo and I were scum together. One thing that has stuck with me about that is in the very beginning in the mafia thread, Jedo had said something to the effect of "We don't bus each other." That goes against what he did here if he were scum. I also don't believe he'd bus a scum buddy as hard as he did MNOWAX on day 1.
Sentran (Mafia): We'll start with the theory above. It was enough for you to vote me, but lets continue with other things.
| Sentran, Post 178 wrote: |
| I'm watching MNO for anything further, but I don't see his actions (or lack thereof) as meaningful as the faux pas by Jedo. I'm good with my current vote. |
| Sentran, Post 206 wrote: |
| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| And far better. What exactly is unconvincing about MNO's scumminess? |
Who the hell cares about MNO's scumminess when faced with yours? Quit deflecting already, you've been caught! |
| Sentran, Post 223 wrote: |
| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| It's the reason I don't believe claims on Day 1: they are designed to scare the town into unvoting. |
| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| I want to see him claim at L-3. |
This appears to be contradictory to me. Jedo does not like Day 1 claims, speaks vehemently against them in multiple games, but still wants to see MNO's claim. If I wasn't already voting Jedo, this would sway my vote to him.
| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| Let this stand as evidence that Amb hasn't understood the things of mine which he has quoted. |
| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| It appears neither of you are actually reading my posts for comprehension, and I daresay you are both suffering from confirmation bias. |
Perhaps if multiple players are having this much trouble understanding you, you should attempt to explain yourself more clearly. As has been already stated, there are worlds of difference between understanding and agreement.
DP, I seem to see this from the opposite corner as you. I think Jedo or possibly MNO are the best options for today. |
The reasoning in 223 is the same reasoning that I had a misunderstanding with. He's following any/all "evidence" to vote Jedo.
| Sentran, Post 229 wrote: |
| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| As for the wagons, I can only plead ignorance. |
So what I'm inferring from this is that you need to read the posts for comprehension. [/sarcasm]
| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| Half of you participate in those cryptics, so why don't you utilize your amazing skills of deduction to understand posts here? |
Your post did not sound at all sarcastic to me. From this bit of your post, I believe I am not being intentionally obtuse, but you are being intentionally misleading/confusing. Again, if more than one person is not understanding your meaning, perhaps you should attempt to be more clear.
[pre-post edit] I see that you already responded to the issue of the clarity, and I appreciate that. It's not enough to make me change my vote on you, but at least it looks like you're listening.
To be honest, I don't entirely disagree with your "no claims on day 1" theory, but I am not 100% sold on it either. I still think it's up to each individual player to choose when to claim. It's their right as a player. |
In this one, Jedo had clarified things, but Sentran still won't change his vote.
| Sentran, Post 263 wrote: |
| Amb wrote: |
| Eitherway, do you see anyone other than Sentran following me? I don't think you have anything to worry about. |
I've noticed that scum tend to defend themselves more vehemently than town. As such, even if I am the only vote on him, my vote will remain on Jedo until a greater scumtell presents itself.
As for MNO, I've already stated that I would not be against his lynch. I just need a bit more reason for why. The argument, as I understand it, is that he joined the game, confirmed, then conveniently "forgot" that he was playing. It does seem a bit improbable, but not impossible. Is there anything else that I'm missing? I'm not considering Jedo's read on MNO's claim as a tell. |
This sounds similar to the "fence sitting" position I was in with MNOWAX throughout the day.
| Sentran, Post 271 wrote: |
Ok, Raearia has made some solid points about why MNO feels scummy. It motivated me to look at the meta about his "forgetting", and here's what I found.
| Quote: |
| Secret Theme Mafia official game start: Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:14 pm |
| Quote: |
| MNO's last post in the HaV Mafia game: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:05 am |
| Quote: |
| MNO's first post in this game after game start: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:36 pm |
Now every time you log in to post (which you must do in order to post to a Mafia thread), it flags the threads that have new messages. In addition to that, they bump to the top of the thread list (after the stickies). That means that in order to forget, he also had to ignore the fact that the thread had been bumped up higher in priority than the thread in which he was posting. Ladies and gentlemen, I am now in the court of believing that the oversight was intentional.
Unvote, Vote: MNOWAX
I realize that some people do not like the meta approach to this game, but I still believe that you should use every resource available to you. |
Raearia "convinced" Sentran to look at MNOWAXs meta. Similar things had already been posted many times before, then votes for MNOWAX. That list of posts is 163, 167, 170, 171, 174, 219, 232, 240, then Raearia posted it in 267, Amb repeats it in 268. I'd actually have the relevant portion of those posts, but I've run out of time for now.
With that, I will:
Vote: Sentran
and be done with this now.
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Most posts made from my phone. |
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