Heroes and Villains mafia - The town claim victory

[3iff]

Heroes & Villains mafia

THE RULES (borrowed from many sources)

• Treat this game as a commitment and try to stay active out of fairness to the other players.
• Do not quote from your role message in the public forum, but you may in the restricted access discussion forums if you like.
• If you feel that I have made a mistake or otherwise have questions, you may send me a PM or post a bolded message in thread like this: Mod: (message)
• Do not edit any posts!
• All discussion of the game must be in this forum, the designated restricted access discussion forums, or PMs to a moderator. Nothing outside of those.
• Votes must be in bold, and have the form Vote: Playername. Adding that you are unvoting (and from whom) is a convenience to the moderator but is not required.
• Roles will be assigned randomly.
• Don't be more of a jerk than absolutely necessary.
• Don't take anything personally (outside the game that is). If someone is being a jerk inside the game, it might be part of their role.
• Posting at night in the public thread is not allowed.
• I may occasionally need to prod people. Please don't be offended if I prod you when you're active.
• If you're going to be absent for a few days, please let me know via PM or the gamethread.
• Night will have a hard deadline of 72 hours from the time night is announced. Night may be shortened if all nighttime activities are completed prior to that time. Saturday and Sunday combined will be considered 24 hours for the purposes of the deadline.
• Daytime will not commence (even at the end of the 72 hour period) until a morning post is made by a moderator.
• Daytime deadlines may be announced by a moderator to get action going. These will be extended if action increases.
• If a "hard deadline" is announced then it will not be extended.
• Day will end when a moderator makes an official announcement that the day is over. Discussion may continue after the majority is reached but before the end of day is announced, but any votes or unvotes made after the majority is reached will be ignored.
• If day ends due to a deadline, it will not actually end until the announcement has been made. Feel free to continue discussing and voting until that time.
• At a deadline, whoever has the most votes will be lynched. If two tie, then whoever has had that number for longer will be lynched. However, it requires a minimum of 2 votes to lynch someone; if no one has more than one vote at the deadline, the result will be "No Lynch."
• "No Lynch" is a valid vote. If that reaches a majority (or wins a tie-breaker as above) then there will be no lynch. Note that this is different from simply not voting, it must be an active vote.

You're all experienced players so I don't expect problems.

If you feel I've made a mistake or there's something you need clarifying...PM me.

All roles have now been sent out. Good luck

[3iff]

Welcome to Movie Heroes and Villains mafia.

The retirement home for Heroes has welcomed many of our well-loved movie heroes over the years, occasionally seeing them leave the home for a short while as they dash off to make a sequel or prequel. But recently, things have begun to change. The atmosphere is different, and the management suspect some movie villains have quietly infiltrated the home. Dr Venkman announces there will be a meeting of residents tomorrow to discuss the situation.

A word of warning, Dr Peter Venkman (Ghostbusters) and Nurse Diesel (High Anxiety) are NPC's reserved to provide flavour. I suggest you do not try to claim their names because it WILL get you lynched!

Night falls...

It's morning, and the residents wake up to find Atticus Finch (To Kill a Mockingbird, a non-player character) brutally slain in his room. He was perhaps the greatest of the film heroes. The management and residents realise that evil is already amongst them, but who are the villains? Nurse Diesel scowls and sets about clearing up the mess.

There are 9 players alive, 5 votes to lynch. Action!

[3iff]

Players: (listed in alphabetical order)

Lounging in the comfy chairs

Garou_Kinfolk
The Great Crep'er

Definitely retired
Raekuul, Town, Oskar Schindler (Schindler's list), Doctor - Lynched Day 1
Undercover Monk, Town, Lassie (Lassie come home), Innocent townie and Non-Standard investigator - Killed Night 1
Perpentach Amb, Town, Marty McFly (Back to the Future), Time traveller - Lynched Day 2
jadesmar MNOWAX, Mafia goon - Lynched day 3
Zag, Town, John McClane (Die Hard), JOAT - Killed Night 4
Jedo the Jedi, Town, Clarice Starling (Silence of the Lambs), Sane FBI Agent - killed night 5
Sentran - Michael Corleone (The Godfather), Mafia Godfather - Lynched day 6

The Town win.

[raekuul]

Vote: Zag

Also, first.

[The Great Crep'er]

Vote: Jedo the Jedi

For wagoning me the last game.
_________________
Potato. Belgium. Eight. Random Lynch # Mafia awaits.

[jadesmar]

Vote: Undercover Monk

The "undercover" bit makes it seem like he's hiding something.

[Zag]

Have I mentioned that I hate the random voting period? I'm looking forward to the "random number needed to lynch" game, since random voting will be dangerous, hopefully making it not happen. (I'm not sure how we'll get started, but I'm looking forward to finding out.)

I'll vote UMonk, because he wouldn't let me cheat in the last game.

[Sentran]

Present, but withholding vote. I feel the RVS is nearly pointless as well.
_________________
Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Undercover Monk]

[Garou_Kinfolk]

Lets go with lucky number 7 for my RVS.

vote: TGC
_________________
Most posts made from my phone.

[Jedo the Jedi]

Don't think I won't do it again, TGC. Also, I think it's best if we not drag our meta arguments across games...at least not until it is relevant.

I'm happy not to be mafia this game, so if you aren't mafia either, Monk, how do you feel about teaming up? vote Perpentach
_________________
Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Sentran]

Vote: Garou_Kinfolk
He's either Mason or Mafia.
_________________
Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[The Great Crep'er]

"Not relevant"? To the outset theme of random seems to suggest otherwise.

And like it or don't, I think random discussion and RVS is how we develop anything to start the game with. If we think about it logically, there's nothing we can do that's "on topic" because the game hasn't started yet. This is just the ignition to start the car that is...the game.
_________________
Potato. Belgium. Eight. Random Lynch # Mafia awaits.

[Garou_Kinfolk]

[Perpentach]

Vote: Undercover Monk, because of puns and also spelling my name with a third e. And also random voting system. See I have three reasons.
_________________
All questions must be stated in the form of an answer.

[Jedo the Jedi]

[Undercover Monk]

Garou is mafia cause he knows things
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Garou_Kinfolk]

@Jedo: I like thinking of how things might work. After reading the dead thread for the last game I thought you might have picked up on that.

Anyway, unvote. Vote Jedo.
My reason being his first post where he asks if UMonk wanted to team up with him. Scum need allies anywhere they can get them and if you ask someone to team up after RVS they look at you closely to try and see what your motives are. But if you do it during RVS, no one will look too closely until later in the game when it might be too late. It's still the first day so I don't think my vote will stay there the entire day. We'll see what other info comes up later.
_________________
Most posts made from my phone.

[The Great Crep'er]

[Sentran]

GK, I am not saying your thought is without merit, but it assumes that Townies do not need allies as well. While it does make some sense for a scum to seek out allies early in the game, it is also a valid strategy for Town members, as we have no clue who is scum. There is also the out-of-game fact that UM and JTJ are frequently of the same mind about Mafia games.
I'm not moving my vote. I decided this game to go with the theory that scum move their votes more easily on day 1, hoping to catch onto an easy bandwagon. Then GK, the person for whom I was voting, was the first player to move their vote. Reason enough for me, even during RVS nonsense.
_________________
Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[3iff]

Perfect time to give a votecount.

Day 1, 9 alive, 5 to lynch
Deadline: none set
Current Vote Count (to post 20)

[Undercover Monk]

Well first semi serious vote for me goes to Unvote, Vote:Garou_Kinfolk. If you had indeed read the dead thread from last game then you would have known that we discussed how we view mafia theory and gameplay in a very similar manner. This feels like a contrived argument to me. Especially considering the tone of Jedo's post which to me was playful and not to be a serious request of an alliance which due to the paranoia this game inspire is really not a feasible option.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Zag]

[Undercover Monk]

[Zag]

I agree that it's not the strongest reason I've ever voted for somebody. But we need to start some sort of bandwagon for the first day, and it seems a better reason than none at all, which is what I am otherwise left with.

If you see something else that looks suspicious, feel free to point it out.

[Undercover Monk]

Its not a good reason at all. If you tell me that you believe that Jedo's first post of the game was a legitimate request for me to vote the same as him all game then be my guest. But my vote will come at you so fast for being (and believe me Im trying to find as nice a way to say this as possibe) a moron. If You think that Jedo's comment was a joke about our similar play styles I will vote you for being a bandwagonning scumbag. If you are just looking for any semblence of a non-randomn reason to vote someone good for you but this isn't it.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Undercover Monk]

Its not a good reason at all. If you tell me that you believe that Jedo's first post of the game was a legitimate request for me to vote the same as him all game then be my guest. But my vote will come at you so fast for being (and believe me Im trying to find as nice a way to say this as possibe) a moron. If You think that Jedo's comment was a joke about our similar play styles I will vote you for being a bandwagonning scumbag. If you are just looking for any semblence of a non-randomn reason to vote someone good for you but this isn't it.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Garou_Kinfolk]

[Undercover Monk]

I feel like Im bashing my head against a wall here.

[Jedo the Jedi]

A few things:

1) The post was in relation to my desire to be on the same team as Monk for the past few games. (Something to this effect was posted publicly recently, but I don't remember where.)

2) If you are going to color my post as scum trying to get away with buddying during RVS, you might as well say Sentran is scum trying to avoid giving information for a read on him...or even you for that matter. (Monk's more sarcastic response conveys the same thing.)

Beyond that (though much less convincing in the face of Garou's accusation), I could ask why would I as a scum draw so much extra attention to myself by posting like this? It's WIFOM, but let's admit that I draw enough negative attention to myself in general without needing to add more.

Finally, I never said I believe Monk to be town. Part of my reasoning for doing this was to see what sort of attention it drew. If Monk just goes along with it, maybe he's drawing close to me where I can keep a better eye on him ("friends close, enemies closer"); but I also see who takes the easy bait.* Drawing on the above paragraph, I'm already an easy frame-up by the scum because of my explosive personality. If somebody tries to capitalize on that post by painting me as scum for it, I think that shows who wants to get rid of me quickly. The problem now is deciding whether Garou is more scummy for bringing it up or Zag for going along with it.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the situation. I promise I won't claim on page 1, like some people we know...

*In a live game, I started out claiming vehemently that somebody was scum, though it was impossible for me to have any actual knowledge. Most people were leaning toward voting another person. One person in particular switched over to my side with relative ease. I then called him out as scum because he obviously didn't care who was lynched. For that day, I ended up being lynched because everybody else thought my logic was flawed and I was acting crazy, but I turned out to be correct in my read.

All of that said, Day 1 isn't so much about what is said but how people react to the things said. I think MNO understands this concept very well.
_________________
Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Sentran]

[sarcasm]

[raekuul]

Well, this is quite a bit to take in.

unvote for the time being.

[The Great Crep'er]

Here's my $0.02, for what it is worth:

FMPOV, it seemed as if Garou was making it clear that the vote really had no intention of causing a Jedo lynch. He even states himself that it will probably not stay there for the entire day. What I don't get is UM's rebuttal. The crux of it seemed to rely on an expectation of reading 'the dead thread', when it looked like Garou's argument didn't even rely on that and was standalone based on the theory that mafia tactics are best conveyed early on in the game when it starts initially in light discussion. So I'm not entirely sure why or how that came into the post in the first place, clarification would help if readily available.

Black and white: Garou and UM had definitely different approaches to Jedo's post. It seems like cut and dry, UM found it to be more of a joke post, and Garou simply let the town know that there could be more to that than the eye based on town-visualized mafia motives, and UM voted Garou because of that disagreement. (I have no idea why the emoticon is such a clincher for him. This is starting to read a lot like the Trial of Socrates)

In any case, I think we may have struck a raw nerve here. raised eyebrow: Undercover Monk The issue has raised definite questions as to whether or not there is a relationship here to be perused. (The "I wouldn't vote Jedo if he claimed scum" post also doesn't do any favors. Unless there is some special reason he wants to keep a scum alive -- which would have to be very convincing -- I don't see why he wouldn't kill them on impact. I will go ahead and make the general assumption that every mafia playing person on the face of the earth knows better than to do that as town)

The "would a scum really do this" argument strikes me as odd coming from Jedo because it wasn't really something he factored into his arguments from the previous game. (Yes, meta, I know, don't reply to me with that I'll acknowledge it here.) It has the stink of desperation on it -- even he acknowledges that it holds less conviction in light of Garou's post -- what role perspective it's coming from has yet to be determined IMO. The whole "explosive personality" bit should be read with a grain of salt. I don't think one's self-observations should hold up as legitimate rebuttal material as they are easily manipulated in front of new audiences.
_________________
Potato. Belgium. Eight. Random Lynch # Mafia awaits.

[Undercover Monk]

TGC you are missing the point . Let me make it clear if you on your first post of a game posted IM SCUM IM SCUM IM SCUM. I would not vote for you. If Amb did that I would not vote for him. If MNO did that I would lynch him cause thats always a good course of action (note the smiley here to indicate jest)

as far as refrencing the dead thread all I can say is that Garou brought it up.

[raekuul]

I only play mafia on two forums.

On the other forum, we rush through the first two or three days, losing valuable players to grudges and injokes - myself usually among them - and in that rush there are clear patterns that emerge. The town is usually victorious once the game slows down on day four.

Why don't we sit back, relax, and let entropy do its thing? I realize that on this forum, wins by the mafia are precluded by fast days, but I feel as though day one should always be fast in games in which there is a day start because we have nothing to go on. Plus the Mafia have the potential to guide this day one arguing in such a way that the people they want lynched get lynched.

If this was too long for you and you didn't read, there's no point in analyzing half of day one.

Vote: Perpentach

[raekuul]

Should be a colon, not a comma.

[Zag]

[Garou_Kinfolk]

unvote

I'm going to be at a wedding and don't want scum to take advantage of Jedo being at L-2 ove the weekend. When I post next time there will be more substance then this.
_________________
Most posts made from my phone.

[jadesmar]

[jadesmar]

I missed Rakuul's vote.. unvote
No reason to be at L-1 this early.