Monster Mash

[Vagrant]

Intro: This was originally meant to be posted at Halloween but sh!t happened and [blah blah <insert life problems here> blah blah]. Since it's been held up anyway, I decided to put some additional work into it and have made it somewhat more difficult. It's now a diagramless crossword and there are no enumerations for any of the clues. I have a list of alternate (easier) clues that I'll post if progress stalls but I'm yet to be surprised by what the collective group of GLers can't do with a seemingly impossible puzzle. I will tell you that one of the answers is 2 words.
[/intro]

You need to solve the clues, fit them into the grid and then anagram the letters that appear on the grey squares to get the answer. The completed crossword grid has 180 degree symmetry but does not follow the American norm of having every letter checked. The clues have been alphabetised so they bear no correlation to the order they appear in the crossword.

A long long time
Bishops and the like
Cookie
Further
Galactic hazards
Gloomy
Hormone
It becomes new every month or so
Mammalian order
Musician’s tool
Often followed by 13, particularly on GL
One reason why sea lion isn’t a lion
One who keeps you up
Pulpit panegyric
Quaver, for example
Quiver, for example
Repetitive insect
Resolved a lost letter dilemma
Shows some feeling
Something madam and minim have in common
Sponsor
Start for man or mite
What you eat before you eat
Wobble

[Elethiomel]

[Vagrant]

Yes, the grey squares will nullify the ambiguity.

[referee]

The dark squares also have 180º symmetry, so no need to check for rotations, I guess.
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Mar 4th, 2008: Rest in Peace, Gary Gygax. May your dice always roll a natural 20 wherever you are.

Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

[Vagrant]

I'll just add that the correct answers to the clues share a commonality which would be apparent if you looked in the right place but should become apparent in due course anyway. I'd never have made the clues so abstract otherwise - some of the clues are not literal definitions of the answers and may only be solveable through backsolving.

I'll include word lengths tomorrow if nobody takes a stab before then.

I should also add that I don't personally think this is a good puzzle in it's current form and I don't think I could solve it. I've presented it like this because I'm interested in seeing what the GL can do with it after seeing the demolition job you did on the puzzles in the MS Puzzle Hunt.

[Vagrant]

[Suspence]

We should have enough to get started:

A long long time
Bishops and the like
Cookie
Further
Galactic hazards
Gloomy
Hormone
It becomes new every month or so - MOON
Mammalian order
Musician’s tool - INSTRUMENT
Often followed by 13, particularly on GL
One reason why sea lion isn’t a lion
One who keeps you up
Pulpit panegyric - SERMON
Quaver, for example
Quiver, for example
Repetitive insect - TSETSE
Resolved a lost letter dilemma - RESENT?
Shows some feeling - EMOTES
Something madam and minim have in common - MM, PALINDROME
Sponsor
Start for man or mite - DUST
What you eat before you eat - APPETIZER?
Wobble
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[Jack_Ian]

Galactic hazards - BLACK HOLES?
Mammalian order - see here for list.

[Suspence]

A long long time - EON
Bishops and the like - CLERGY or maybe CHESSMEN
Hormone - Generically, CHEMICAL. If a specific one, there are tons.
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[Vagrant]

I'll confirm some answers
EON
MOON
SERMON
TSETSE
RESENT
EMOTES
EON

Two others are quite close; at least on the right track.

This may be enough to work out the 'commonality' which will make clues like Hormone much less troublesome.

[Suspence]

Confirmed in bold:

A long long time - EON
Bishops and the like
Cookie - OREO
Further
Galactic hazards - METEORS
Gloomy - MOROSE
Hormone - TESTOSTERONE
It becomes new every month or so - MOON
Mammalian order
Musician’s tool - METRONOME
Often followed by 13, particularly on GL
One reason why sea lion isn’t a lion
One who keeps you up
Pulpit panegyric - SERMON
Quaver, for example
Quiver, for example
Repetitive insect - TSETSE
Resolved a lost letter dilemma - RESENT
Shows some feeling - EMOTES
Something madam and minim have in common
Sponsor
Start for man or mite
What you eat before you eat
Wobble - TOTTER

Also, DUST isn't right? It was so perfect!
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[Vagrant]

Confirm
OREO
MOROSE
TESTOSTERONE
METRONOME

and almost right
MM spell it
CHESSMEN
METEORS this will be the 2 word answer
TOTTER no, the other one

[Suspence]

Maybe M'S instead of MM?
TEETER instead of TOTTER?
Maybe the 2 word answer is METEOR STORMS?
Just MEN for bishops?

What you eat before you eat - Possibly ENTREE, though it's not really used that way anymore.
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[novice]

So I suppose the limited alphabet is the commonality we're supposed to spot?

EDIT: And the alphabet is MONSTER, of course.

[Suspence]

Specifically, MONSTER.
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[novice]

[Suspence]

This could help

Confirmed in bold:

A long long time - EON
Bishops and the like - MEN
Cookie - OREO
Further - MORE REMOTE / REMOTER
Galactic hazards - METEOR STORMS
Gloomy - MOROSE
Hormone - TESTOSTERONE
It becomes new every month or so - MOON
Mammalian order - MONOTREMES
Musician’s tool - METRONOME
Often followed by 13, particularly on GL
One reason why sea lion isn’t a lion
One who keeps you up
Pulpit panegyric - SERMON
Quaver, for example
Quiver, for example
Repetitive insect - TSETSE
Resolved a lost letter dilemma - RESENT
Shows some feeling - EMOTES
Something madam and minim have in common - M'S
Sponsor - SETTER
Start for man or mite
What you eat before you eat - ENTREE
Wobble - TEETER
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[Gomez]

Quaver, for example - Note
Mammalian order - Monotreme(s)?

[Suspence]

Possibility for Quiver - TREMOR
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[Thok*]

Often followed by 13, particularly on GL

I was expecting this to be ROT even before we knew about the limited alphabet. Now I'm sure of it.

[novice]

What's the reference, Thok?

[Suspence]

N EBG-13 VF N FVZCYR PNRFNE-PLCURE RAPELCGVBA GUNG ERCYNPRF RNPU RATYVFU YRGGRE JVGU GUR BAR GUVEGRRA CYNPRF NURNQ BS VG VA GUR NYCUNORG
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[novice]

[Zag]

Ok, I'll say it.

This puzzle is too hard!!

Even once you catch on to the trick of the limited letter selection, which does help qualify a lot of your answers, that same limitation means that putting them on to the board is going to be a brutal challenge. You don't get to start with the only two words that have a J in order to figure out a place to stand.

Of course, with this crowd, it'll get solved. By "too hard" I meant "way too hard for me."

[ralphmerridew]

I can see one potential place to start:
- Count the number of words of each length.
- If we're really lucky, there will be two lengths that have an odd number of words. In that case, one word of each length goes through the center cell.

Also, there are presently two 12-letter answers (TESTOSTERONE and METEORSTORM). If there aren't any more 12-letter answers, there will be only 48 ways to place those words. (24 if you place them first and ignore whether they're across or down until the end.)

[Suspence]

One who keeps you up - SNORER
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[Vagrant]

Confirm
TEETER
METEOR STORMS
MEN
ENTREE
MONOTREME
NOTE
TREMOR
ROT
SNORER
MORE (I know that wasn't actually the guess but I'll give it anyway)

The shortest answers used in the crossword are three letters.

For the remaining unsolved clues
One reason why sea lion isn't a lion - this is not a definition of the answer; in a cryptic clue it would be the wordplay part. I left it in because I liked it. Consider why it's 'sea lion' and not 'sealion'.
Something madam and minim have in common - see hidden text in post 12.
Sponsor - this is a straight definition; I'm surprised it's causing any problem.
Start for man or mite - this is just a bad clue that might have been ok in a normal crossword but doesn't work at all in this; possibly gettable through backsolving. Try 'German king' instead.

[novice]

Three letters:
A long long time - EON
Bishops and the like - MEN
Often followed by 13, particularly on GL - ROT

Four letters:
Cookie - OREO
Further - MORE
It becomes new every month or so - MOON
Quaver, for example - NOTE

Six letters:
Gloomy - MOROSE
One who keeps you up - SNORER
Pulpit panegyric - SERMON
Quiver, for example - TREMOR
Repetitive insect - TSETSE
Resolved a lost letter dilemma - RESENT
Shows some feeling - EMOTES
What you eat before you eat - ENTREE
Wobble - TEETER

Nine letters:
Mammalian order - MONOTREME
Musician’s tool - METRONOME

Twelve letters:
Galactic hazards - METEOR STORMS
Hormone - TESTOSTERONE

Unsolved:
One reason why sea lion isn’t a lion
Something madam and minim have in common - EMS, MOM
Sponsor - MENTOR
Start for man or mite

[novice]

[Vagrant]

Confirm
EMS
MENTOR
OTTO

And I'll take all the fun of discovery out of the last one ... One reason explanation why "sea lion" isn't "a lion"

[novice]

[novice]

Three letters:
EMS
EON
MEN
ROT

Four letters:
MOON
MORE
NOSE
NOTE
OREO
OTTO

Six letters:
EMOTES
ENTREE
MENTOR
MOROSE
RESENT
SERMON
SNORER
TEETER
TREMOR
TSETSE

Nine letters:
METRONOME
MONOTREME

Twelve letters:
METEORSTORMS
TESTOSTERONE

[Vagrant]

If anyone wants to try fitting those answers into the grid without help don't peek here - TESTOSTERONE goes across and starts in the second square down on the left hand side.

Also, for those unfamiliar with UK style cryptic crossword grids, no two consecutive letters either across or down are unchecked. i.e. at least every second letter in answers in both directions is checked, possibly more, but never less.

[Vagrant]

Diagrams may help explain all that better

[Suspence]

[Vagrant]

All four of the grids shown have 180 degree rotational symmetry i.e. if you rotate them by 180 degrees the grids are identical. None of them have mirror symmetry in any direction.

I thought this was the norm in most American crosswords too, It is in the ones I do.

[Vagrant]

This example shows two identical grids with different orientation

If I told you there was a letter in the square with a red circle you'd be able to work out which orientation was correct.

[ralphmerridew]

Well, assuming that the middle cell is empty, there appears to be a unique solution, but I'm not sure if anybody could find it without a computer search.

For those who don't want to go through the search: OMORE TRTSN

[Suspence]

Actually, given the theme, the alphabet constraint, and the number of gray boxes, I had figured that TORMENTERS was the answer long ago.

Had this been a MPH-type quiz, I would've tried submitting that almost as soon as I recognized the alphabet limitation.
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[Vagrant]