I'm not poetic about a bout (11)

[Jack_Ian]

While driving in to work this morning, I saw a t-shirt with the slogan "exact change" written on it. I thought it was clever and worthy fodder for a cryptic clue and began trying to compose one during the remainder of my journey (instead of concentrating on the road, silly me).
I wasn't happy with my attempt and so I was going to open it up for submissions here.

To make it more interesting, I've decided to run a competition.
I will present 5 answers for which you must compose cryptic clues.
You need not submit clues for all and you may refine your clue at any point up to the deadline.
To submit your clues, just PM them to me. I will not read them until the deadline, so you can edit them any time you wish.
Once I have everyone's submission, I will present the clues anonymously, invite discussion and ask for votes.
Anyone who participates can vote. Voting will consist of you placing all clues, in a single list, in order of preference (excluding your own). Once all votes are in I will present the results and reveal the authors.
The choice below was somewhat random and I'm open to replacing any of them if they are deemed too obvious or difficult.

I will be participating myself. You'll have to trust me not to cheat.
The deadline for submissions is provisionally set for Sunday 20'th, Feb.

Answers:
a) exact change
b) zyzzyva
c) collywobbles
d) spoonerism
e) navvy

_{(Edit:Clarified method of submission)}

[Gomez*]

[Content removed by HytoFry.]

[ralphmerridew]

Gomez: Delete your clues and PM them to Jack_Ian.

[HyToFry]

Since it was a Guest post, I took the liberty of deleting the post. I will PM the post to Gomez, and I will happily put it back if he wishes so.

I will not be participating in the competition, because I suck at cryptic clues.

[Jack_Ian]

2 submissions so far (not including me).
Still plenty of time.

[Jack_Ian]

Last chance to send in your clues.
Even if you don't have clues for all, just send me what you've got.
I'll probably post the submissions sometime tomorrow.

[Zag]

Oh, all right. I wasn't able to make clues that I thought were any good for the more ridiculous ones, but I'll work something up.

[Gomez]

Did you get mine Jack_Ian?

[Zag]

Clues are in transit, finally! (4)

[Gomez]

[Jack_Ian]

Here are the submissions given thus far. I don't fully understand all of them and so I will await a response from their respective authors before I publish the detail or make comments..

1) Answer: Exact Change
a. Cleverly exchange cat for precise amount.
b. Demand alteration by just the right amount.
c. Foolishly get a chance, include an unknown, and arrive at the perfect amount.
d. Precision Evolution

2) Answer: Zyzzyva
a. After you and Bea left, Buzzy Buzzy, VA held only a small, yellowish beetle.
b. The Omega of Arthropods
c. Volkswagon, in a sense, makes heartless zoey a bit dizzy in Virginia.
d. Yesterday ends with Virginia catching some Z's with a bug

3) Answer: Collywobbles
a. 3-legged Lassie?
b. A peculiar Bellboy's scowl gives you a funny feeling.
c. Heard sheepdog teeters with nerves.
d. Lassie is unsteady, I heard, from an upset stomach.

4) Answer: Spoonerism
a. Cuddle a baffled miser, or muddle a baffled Kaiser?
b. I hold the gentleman back after the companion of a real dish makes a clever comment.
c. Romeo spins around for one to know his blows.

5) Answer: Navvy
a. A ditch digger, the fourth one leaving, joins armed forces.
b. Marine force takes five to show you the way.
c. Navy has five built railroads

_{Edit: Clues 1d, 2b & 3a struck out by author's request.}

[Jack_Ian]

Thank you all for your submissions.
BTW, It's not too late to make alterations or submit clues.
Just PM me and I will add them in.
Good Luck everyone.

[Zag]

For the record, zyzzyva was an awful word to clue. I'm not wild about any of the clues there, but I hate mine the most.

Are you looking for us to discuss the merits of the different clues publicly? Or are we just going to vote? Or what? Do you plan to post explanations of the more confusing ones?

[Jack_Ian]

I was going to post explanations of them all and invite comments, but I didn't want to give any clues to the authors, so I was waiting until I could explain all of them.

If I don't hear anything today I'll post what I know tomorrow.

Please feel free to give your comments though.

[Jack_Ian]

Clues for which I have complete information:
4) Answer: Spoonerism
a. (Cuddle) SPOON, (a baffled miser) (anag.) ERISM, or muddle a baffled Kaiser? (Definition)
b. SPOON (companion as in Hickory-Dickory-Dock) + ME holding SIR, reversed = clever comment (definition)
c. anagram of (Romeo spins)
for one to know his blows. (example as definition "blow his nose")

5) Answer: Navvy
a. Definition:A ditch digger, (the fourth one leaVing) V, joins armed forces + NAVY.
b. (Marine force) NAVY (takes five) +V = (to show you the way) definition, navigator
c. Navy (has five) +V = built railroads (definition)

[Jack_Ian]

4a) I thought this was clever and I very much liked the way the definition was a spoonerism of the wordplay and the surface reading was good.
4b) Also clever, but perhaps a little too complicated for me. I didn't like the way "real dish" was actually a fictional dish, although it did help the surface reading.
4c) Not very clever, but has a good surface reading.

5) The clue for this was fairly obvious and all had the same idea.
I prefer Marine force to armed forces, especially since the answer is involved in further wordplay. IMO 5a doesn't have as good a surface reading as the other two and "to show you the way" is a fairly obscure definition.

[Gomez]

1d is brilliant! I think that's my favourite of the lot.

[Zag]

1a. I like the surface reading, but the anagram that includes one of the words intact is not ideal.
1b. I like this one best. Good surface reading and a nice double definition.
1c. A better anagram than 1a, but not a very good surface reading.
1d. I don't see how it is a complete cryptic

2a. Just cruddy. A bad surface reading, a made up place name, and just yuck. (This one is mine.)
2b. Either this is a double definition in which neither of the two definitions is really complete, or it is just a single definition and no wordplay or second def.
2c. The "definition" is a little too indirect. Just "bug" works here, I think. Also, "a bit" is a bit misleading, perhaps "mostly" would work.
2d. Easily the best surface reading, and good wordplay, too. But the first Z is not really included in the wordplay. Still, this is my favorite.

3a. A good wordplay, but where's the definition?
3b. I would remove the "A," but it's a good clue.
3c and 3d. Essentially the same. Both adequate clues.
I can't really pick a favorite, here: BCD tie, and A is out only for being incomplete.

4a. You have to like how the wordplay works off of the definition, but the definition is missing "for example" or something like that. Still, my favorite for the cleverness.
4b. That's some complex wordplay, probably too much.
4c. I like this, but I'm anagrams seem to be overwhelming us.

5a, b, c. All very similar. I agree with Jack_Ian that Marine Force is better than armed forces, but otherwise I like the surface reading of A better than the others. I think a definition for Navy was called for, so I'm not that fond of C. I'm going to pick A, here (the first one for which I'm picking my own submission), but it is very close for all three.

[Gomez]

1a. Straightforward anagram. Reads well and does the job but there's nothing outstanding about it.
1b. I liked this one for the double definition.
1c. I thought the anagram was a little awkward here. Aesthetically, I'm not really keen on using words like 'get' or 'a' in an anagram clue. I think that if you're doing an anagram, the words the solver is supposed to be rearranging should stick out just a little.
1d. I love this one. Not a letter wasted. Probably my favourite of the entire competition.

2a. Not too keen on this one. I think the first clause should include a word that somehow relates to phonics to let the solver know that 'you' and 'Bea' mean 'U' and 'B'. Also the surface reading is quite awkward.
2b. I don't really get this one at all. Could someone give me a quick explanation for it? Thanks.
2c. Definition is too lateral, and 'heartless zoey' just sounds awkward.
2d. Easily the best one. Clearest definition and, if you know the word, I think this is really the only clue of the four that anyone would stand a good chance of solving.

3a. Points for cleverness and brevity, but missing a definition.
3b. My least favourite of the four. 'Bellboy's scowl' is an imperfect anagram because there's an extra 's'. Anagrams should always be perfect. I hate seeing clues which clearly present anagrams but don't explicitly tell you which letters you need to rearrange or which letters need to be dropped (this one was mine)
3c and 3d. Both very similar in style and both very good clues.

4a. This one was mine and I've got to admit I'm a little proud of it I'm not gonna toot my own horn any more than that, although Zag's point about including something like 'For example' after the definition is well taken.
4b. I think there was too much wordplay in this one, and might be too difficult to solve.
4c. Not bad, but I think that like 4a. this clue would benefit from the inclusion of the words 'for example' after the definition.

5a. I liked 'the fourth one leaving' but thought 'armed forces' was a slightly vague definition.
5b. Again, the definition was too vague. Otherwise OK.
5c. My favourite for this word. Straightforward with a good surface reading and just the right amount of wordplay.

So, in summary, I vote for 1d. 2d. 3c. 4a. (and, if I'm not allowed to vote for my own, 4c.) and 5c.

Overall, a very high standard of clues, I think. We should club together and do a full crossword sometime. It must be said that Zyzzyva was an absolute bastard to write for though I think I spent about half an hour on my clues, and a good 20 minutes were on that one and I still didn't come up with anything especially good, but all the others were excellent cryptic crossword fodder, and I suppose working on toughies like zyzzyva is the best way to improve one's composing skills.

[Zag]

[Gomez]

Ah, good catch. I thought that had just been added to improve the surface reading.

[Jack_Ian]

The author of 1d, 2b & 3a has asked me to disregard them, as there was some confusion about the requirements of a cryptic clue.

I'm sure Gomez will be disappointed if I remove 1d, so I might leave it in as an anonymous entry. Would you like to make the case for this clue Gomez?
I'm afraid I can't see how the clue is completed.

I will post a description of the remaining clues soon. Just a little too busy at the moment.

[Jack_Ian]

OK Voting time.
Just place the remaining 15 clues in order of preference, excluding your own clues. The numbers will suffice, e.g. 1b, 3c, 1a, 2b,… etc.
I'll work our the stats and post the results.
Thank you all for you submissions and the enlightening discussion that followed.
Good Luck!

[Zag]

It was interesting to see how others solved the same problems, and the discussion afterward was interesting and illuminating. However, I don't see that a vote and a ranking adds much of anything to this contest. I'm perfectly happy calling it done.

If I have to rank them, I'll put 4a and 2d as my favorites, even though both of them are flawed. (4a needs only "for example" to be fixed. 2d needs to clue the first Z more definitely. But it is such a nice surface reading for such a horrible word to clue that I am impressed as hell by it.)

It's possible that my not wanting to bother with the ranking has to do with none of mine making the top three, possibly not even the top five.

[Jack_Ian]

I'm OK with that too. Besides, I'm lazy
For the record: 1b, 2d, 3c, 4c & 5c were mine.

4a would be my overall favourite too. Well done Gomez.