Clint Eastwood Mafia Game Over - Town Wins

[Raearia]

Well I keep hearing "if Jedo, Sentran or MNO are alive after day one then they are scum.." I am starting to believe this! haha Thanks for the game!
_________________
10289 is the end!

[Jedo the Jedi]

jadesmar, you say that as if you knew Sentran was scum. I called it luck because that's what I believe it was. The things Sentran was suspected for were no different than things he regularly does as town. Zag and I even mentioned in the dead thread that he looked just as unreadable as he usually does. And to emphasize my point:

[jadesmar]

[Dragon Phoenix]

Good Lord.

My post 780:
"I doubt that we have a SK and a mafia left. That would be 4 mafia (including extra powers) and a SK in a 15 player game - grossly unbalanced." Yes, I tended to lean to the 4 mafia theory, but that is no way a conclusion from balancing issues. 3 mafia + 1 SK would be a balanced game.

His post 791:
"I have considered the fact that GK may be SK, but I dismissed that possibility due to the balance issues I saw."

This (no SK) is clearly a different statement from mine (no 4 mafia and 1 SK). I therefore asked in post 793 what the balance issues were he saw, because his conclusion was different. This was not a trap, I wanted to see whether I could agree with him on his conclusion that there is no SK, to get the Garou situation beyond any doubt.

I was surprised and delighted by his over-the-top reaction in post 796, which clearly suggested strongly that the balance issues were the same as mine - but there is no way that this leads to the conclusion "no SK" unless you know that there are 4 scum.

If Sentran had posted his more levelheaded 824 as an answer, I would not have had a case. But he scumslipped.
_________________
My photography:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/artrock2006/

[spyrl]

Yay Town! Hopefully next game I'm in I'll get to last a bit longer when I have such a nifty power role. =D

Thanks for moding Snik!
_________________
"And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head." Terry Pratchett, Maskerade
Discworld Mafia is here!

[Jedo the Jedi]

[jadesmar]

[jadesmar]

I think my point is, after losing a fair contest, it is not considered good sportsmanship in my culture to say things like "You just got lucky".

[Jedo the Jedi]

[Dragon Phoenix]

Sour grapes much?

That you can't follow a simple and concise reasoning how Sentran got caught in a scumslip does not justify remarks like "How it ended and when it ended had little to do with any skill though. "

You are showing yourself to be a very bad loser, Jedo.
_________________
My photography:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/artrock2006/

[Jedo the Jedi]

I disagree there is a scumslip, so if I don't believe there is one, that would affect my entire view. Considering others in the dead thread affirmed the unconvincing nature of the argument about Sentran's scumminess, it seems I'm not alone. You could add another level of luck then in saying that at least those people weren't still in the game because if they were, Sentran may have survived!

If you guys were going on about Sentran having a bad reaction to something and that he therefore gave himself away, it would be a different matter entirely. Then I would praise you for capitalizing on that and/or even causing it by asking the right questions. That's not what you are claiming though.

The sentiments of the day show the town was not much interested in Sentran until he was misunderstood.
_________________
Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Jedo the Jedi]

I will say, like Garou catching me, you did well at investigating Leonidas. I'm not sure why you chose him (I think you listed your reasoning, I just don't remember it), but he probably would have continued escaping notice by lurking if you hadn't.
_________________
Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Raearia]

Honestly DP I feel like what you said and what Sentran said were the same sentiment just worded differently. The game is over we won and I think you should really take a step back and read the dead thread. There were a few people, like Jedo said, who didn't agree with your reasoning and asking if you voted for Sentran for something you yourself said. I think beating the dead horse is pointless.

Again, we won. People think your view that Sentran had a "scumslip" is a little far reaching considering you said the same thing.

Your post 780:
"I doubt that we have a SK and a mafia left. That would be 4 mafia (including extra powers) and a SK in a 15 player game - grossly unbalanced." I interpret as: I don't think there is a SK. You use the word doubt to give an idea that while its a possibility it is a slim one at best.

His post 791:
"I have considered the fact that GK may be SK, but I dismissed that possibility due to the balance issues I saw." I interpret this also as: I don't think there is a SK. He uses the words: considered/dismissed/possibility: This also says it is at best, a slim possibility.

Same out come of opinion just different wording.Yes I know you say that people need to re-read the posts but that doesn't mean that you can sit idly back. You also need to take a step back and consider 1) you were wrong. 2) that you did indeed just get lucky in getting the remaining town to follow your lead. 3) Be less of an ass when people say they don't agree with you.
_________________
10289 is the end!

[Leonidas]

Who cares anyway? Thanks for the game, town won (and deserved to win), let's party...

[jadesmar]

[Raearia]

Party... i got the popcorn and soda!
_________________
10289 is the end!

[Dragon Phoenix]

I did re-read the posts - immediately after Sentran committed suicide, frustrated because I expected that I was wrong after all. It did not change my conclusions.

You are skipping the main point of my argument Raearia - it is not a matter of what Sentran and I expressed what we believed to be likely scenarios - it is to what conclusion we both said that we came based on game balancing considerations. If you do not agree with my reasoning, fine, but if you accuse me of being an ass (thanks, very kind of you), please use the right arguments.

God knows that my play in this game has been very bad at times (my reads were totally off for a large part), but I stand by my interpretation of Sentran's scumslip. If anyone considers that rude, well, so be it
_________________
My photography:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/artrock2006/

[Jedo the Jedi]

I'll just add this for perspective: I think scum winning Zag's Secret Theme was lucky. There was an element of strategy (we actively chose to recruit MNO), but it just as easily could have blown up in our faces. Aside from the recruited MNO playing above par, the scum were pretty terrible that game (we were lynched Days 2, 4-7).

Edit: I don't consider your perspective rude (or necessarily wrong), but almost nobody else saw it. jadesmar went along with it, but that is at least in part because of a simmering suspicion. You convinced 3iff on your interpretation of events. Good job.
_________________
Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Raearia]

I actually view you as being ass in regards to calling someone a very bad looser and having a case of the sour grapes as well as you also imply that they have reading comprehension issues.

It is in general rude to call a person an ass I know. I did immediately regret posting it but your words to me were of a person being an ass to someone because they simply didn't agree with you.

If you weren't intending to be an ass then I am sorry, that is how you came across to me however.

I still don't see your reasoning's as different from Sentran's, and for that we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

Edit: I have a hard time posting an opinion on someone like being an ass or a jerk because it is hard to translate tone over text. But I did post it because I felt that was what you were to trying to be. Again if that is not what you meant then I apologize.
_________________
10289 is the end!

[jadesmar]

I don't get the bit where when the mafia guys die, they are all like... "I was town all the time after all". Then the mod's like.. Nope.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Let's put a stop to tat discussion then: I was definitely not intending to be an ass. I admit that I was miffed to see what I still consider a scumslip* that I caught, be continuously discarded by jedo as "town just getting lucky", hence the sour grapes and bad loser comments.

* just as some of you obviously still cannot understand or agree with my reasoning, I have equal difficulty understanding why it is apparently not as logical to some of you as it is to me. So be it.
_________________
My photography:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/artrock2006/

[Jedo the Jedi]

[Zag]

[raekuul]

I wonder if there'll ever be another Deep South-style game...

[Sentran]

Ah, mafia. Even the end of a game does not herald an end of the arguments.
_________________
Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Sentran]

[jadesmar]

[3iff]

Great result for us...I'll have to read up the endgame details.

On Friday, it was a toss-up between Sentran and Raekuul for my vote, with Sentran having a slight edge for some reason. Glad I chose Sentran, mainly because I trusted DP and jadesmar.

-----

spyrl, dead post:
"3iffs post is an excellent example of presenting information that others have presented (with some minor new information), but not actually saying much. It doesn't help that his last line "But first, what do YOU think?" bugs me."

I thought I saw something red-flagging a nameclaim and I wanted to see if anyone else saw what I saw, without prompting them. Actually, I was wrong in what I thought I saw. That was the only reason for me doing it like that.
For the record, Frank Corvin (Sentran) didn't seem to fit very well...but I had real suspicions for Hogan (Raearia) which I subsequently decided were misleading, so I gave up trying to use rolenames.

Jedo: Very well played. You had me suckered into believing you were town, although you convinced Zag too, so I'm less embarrassed by my gullibility.

A pity that the game was mod-starved of a regular supply of info and votecounts. Also, for the theme, there didn't seem any real way that town Clints were different from mafia Clints.

[Sniklac16]

I don't like to use the obvious choices when assigning roles. I think it makes for a more entertaining and challenging game.
_________________
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

[jadesmar]

[3iff]

But was there something to allow the astute to tell which rolenames were mafia? Also, giving them 4 safe names seemed a bit generous.

[Garou_Kinfolk]

Finished reading the dead and mafia threads.

@Spyrl: You think I'm like Doug from Up? :p

@Jedo: The way I post is different then others, yes. I think it will both help and hinder me in future games depending on my alignment (as scum it might make it harder to spot me, as town the scum can use it against me). I won't say how in either case, but we'll have to wait for future games to see if I'm right.

As far as the final argument about balance goes, I think I could see what D.P. was saying, but both Sentran and D.P. seemed to be saying the same thing in different ways, then getting upset at eachother for disagreeing with them.

I'm curious to know what roles survived the game. A 3-shot vig., a couple of vanilla, a 1-shot cop. I know there are others, just don't know what.
_________________
Most posts made from my phone.

[jadesmar]

I was a role blocker

[Garou_Kinfolk]

[Dragon Phoenix]

My role, verbatim:

[jadesmar]

[MNOWAX]

I just want to say, nice bussing Day 1. For the record I had forgotten about the game, just not as long as i had stated. Throwing me under the bus as scum is an excellent strategy, especially as I keep coming up scum these games. You guys did fine, just got some bad runs and minor scumslips that cost ya. Oh well, on to the next!

GG town, Thanks for modding, Snik!
_________________
The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Garou_Kinfolk]

[3iff]

I was just a (relatively) boring vanilla townie.