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Suspence · Daedalian Member

I was working on a cryptic today that seemingly has two perfectly valid solutions:

Put a stop to crazy skill (5)

Can you come up with both solutions? More importantly, can you come up with other examples of one clue with two valid solutions (hopefully of the same length)?
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Suspence · Daedalian Member

I guess there are some cognate anagrams that would automatically yield multiple solutions, such as:

Thirteen different levels we put on (7,4,3)
Move stealthily by renovated delis (5)

The clue in the post above uses two different types of wordplay, which is more of what I'm looking for.
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Vagrant · Daedalian Member

3iff · very unbifflike

Proof that I haven't yet woken up...trying to find an anagram of skill...and failing!

Move stealthily by renovated delis (5)... idles and slide
Number over there (5)...three and ???

Suspence · Daedalian Member

3iff · very unbifflike

I wasn't 100% happy with idles but it 'just about' fits.

Suspence · Daedalian Member

Number over there (5) - THREE and ETHER.

I like it. Even though the wordplay method is the same for both solutions, the fact that they aren't synonyms is great.

Any clues that have two solutions via different wordplay methods? As was pointed out, mine has a flaw that probably invalidates it a bit.
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3iff · very unbifflike

I had ether and didn't see the connection. I do now. It's the old FLOWer FLOWER cryptic trick...

Zag · Tired of his old title

I was trying to make one that swaps wordplay and definition for the two solutions. This is the best I've come up with. I like the fact that none of the words are used for the same purpose in the two solutions. I don't like the fact that I'm stretching a definition of a key word nearly to the breaking point (or past it, perhaps). I'll actually be surprised if anyone gets both words.

Sounds like cow on your lead. (7) or (5)

Suspence · Daedalian Member

By the way, here are the intended solutions for my original clue, in spoilertext:

Put a stop to crazy skill (5) KILLS (anagram) and STUNT (double definition)

I'm trying to do something with MOO for Zag's, but no dice yet.
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Vagrant · Daedalian Member

I guess there's be a lot of homonym multi-answers too. I did a crossword yesterday with clue Regretted sounding impolite (4). I spent ages trying to make RUED fit before realising the answer was RUDE. I've never liked homonym clues with the indicator in the middle but it works for purpose of this thread.

Quailman · His Postmajesty

I agree. I think it's bad form to use a homophone indicator in the middle, especially when they have the same letter count.

I'm more a fan of the double definition, particularly when the parts of speech in the surface reading are different than those in the double definition, like "Standard tire (4)" or "Boom box (4)"

Zag · Tired of his old title

jbvntx · Daedalian Member

Zag · Tired of his old title

no need to spoil them, jbv. Extreme Delectation

Both are false trails.

Vagrant · Daedalian Member

Clumsy and wordy but how about ...

Wicked thing in time after people's evening retirement starts (5)

Zag · Tired of his old title

One of them: taper, a candle (wicked thing) and initials of ...

jbvntx · Daedalian Member

The other one: NIGHT = thing(anag) and definition of "time after people's evening retirement starts."
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jbvntx · Daedalian Member

Elethiomel · Daedalian Member

Fun challenge. Here's the best I could come up with.

Denied exports, Amber dejectedly heads out. (4 or 9)

Also, here's an &lit. for Zag.

Character frequently chasing a crooked don! (4)

novice · No harm. Pun intended!

novice · No harm. Pun intended!

Elethiomel · Daedalian Member

Vagrant · Daedalian Member

Although interesting (and pretty clever) that the same words lead to different answers, 'Denied exports, Amber dejectedly heads out (4)' and 'Denied exports, Amber dejectedly heads out (9)' are not identical clues. At least not in the way that I think Suspence was looking for.

Zag · Tired of his old title

3iff · very unbifflike

Sounds like cow on your lead. (7) or (5) BEEFY or MEATY ??

Other possibles are METAL and METALED, maybe even METTLED but I'm not happy with them. It would be Metalled in 'real' English. Felicitous

Zag · Tired of his old title

Nope, sorry.

Bigger hints:

3. Cow, as in to threaten someone. This is the definition that is stretched, because I'm taking it to mean that the person is actually injured (i.e. HARMed) in some way by this.

4. Cow to mean domesticated bovine, not necessarily female (but not all that male, either)

5. The words 'on' and 'like' are each used as part of the wordplay in one case (opposite cases, though), and they are each just filler in their other case

6. Cow is part of the word play in both clues

novice · No harm. Pun intended!

Here's my best shot, as posted in the other thread:

Chill out, sea crest. (4)

Zag · Tired of his old title

My submission is feeling a little neglected. I'll go ahead and spoil it

Sounds like cow on your lead. (7) or (5)

Cow (i.e. threaten) = HARM
+ ON
+ (lead of your) Y
= HARMONY (Sounds)

Sounds like (homophone indicator)
Steer (castrated male bovine)
Steer (your lead)

Quailman · His Postmajesty

not to be pedantic, but would you accept "Girl" to clue "Boy"? That's what you're doing if you use "Cow" to clue "Steer".

Elethiomel · Daedalian Member

I think it makes sense in that a steer makes a similar sound as a cow. Not sure if that was Zag's intention, though. Revenge most foul!

Elethiomel · Daedalian Member

Zag · Tired of his old title

I did say above that I was using cow to mean 'domesticated bovine, not necessarily female.' I grew up around cows, and I know that is how we used the term. (i.e. as in, right there). I suspect that this may be regional, however.

Elethiomel · Daedalian Member

I'm working on another cryptic pyramid, and I'm curious about people's stance on double definitions? I think Zag wrote somewhere that they should only be used when the definitions apply to words with different roots. Personally, I think double definitions can be pretty cool, if the definitions given are creative. Here's an example:

Boring outcome flagged in green.

On the other hand, I can agree that a clue like

Direct series.

isn't all that interesting, although I wouldn't call it invalid, regardless of etymology.

Thoughts?

Zag · Tired of his old title

I wouldn't say that such double definitions are verboten. That was something like shorthand for the sorts of double definitions which are immensely unsatisfying because many synonyms of the answer would also work. I am ok with your first one (I had to Google the answer. Enthusiastic Grin

), even though the two words are really the same. The thing is that there wouldn't possibly be any other words that fit both definitions.

Elethiomel · Daedalian Member