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Suspence
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:16 am    Post subject: 1 I was working on a cryptic today that seemingly has two perfectly valid solutions: Put a stop to crazy skill (5) Can you come up with both solutions? More importantly, can you come up with other examples of one clue with two valid solutions (hopefully of the same length)?_________________I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.
Suspence
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:30 am    Post subject: 2 I guess there are some cognate anagrams that would automatically yield multiple solutions, such as: Thirteen different levels we put on (7,4,3) Move stealthily by renovated delis (5) The clue in the post above uses two different types of wordplay, which is more of what I'm looking for._________________I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.
Vagrant
Daedalian Member

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:41 am    Post subject: 3

 Suspence wrote: I was working on a cryptic today that seemingly has two perfectly valid solutions: Put a stop to crazy skill (5)

If one of the solutions is kills then the clue should read puts a stop to ...

Since I can't work out the other answer I don't know whether that would change it's validity.

Best multi-solution cryptic I've seen is

Number over there (5)
3iff
very unbifflike

 Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:58 am    Post subject: 4 Proof that I haven't yet woken up...trying to find an anagram of skill...and failing! Move stealthily by renovated delis (5)... idles and slide Number over there (5)...three and ???
Suspence
Daedalian Member

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:10 pm    Post subject: 5

 3iff wrote: Move stealthily by renovated delis (5)... idles and slide

I was actually thinking SIDLE and SLIDE. So maybe we've got a triple!

 Vagrant wrote: If one of the solutions is kills then the clue should read puts a stop to ...

Agreed. This usage was necessary to match the usage of the other solution, which is a double definition.
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.
3iff
very unbifflike

 Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:12 pm    Post subject: 6 I wasn't 100% happy with idles but it 'just about' fits.
Suspence
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:05 pm    Post subject: 7 Number over there (5) - THREE and ETHER. I like it. Even though the wordplay method is the same for both solutions, the fact that they aren't synonyms is great. Any clues that have two solutions via different wordplay methods? As was pointed out, mine has a flaw that probably invalidates it a bit._________________I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.
3iff
very unbifflike

 Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:16 pm    Post subject: 8 I had ether and didn't see the connection. I do now. It's the old FLOWer FLOWER cryptic trick...
Zag
Tired of his old title

 Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:03 pm    Post subject: 9 I was trying to make one that swaps wordplay and definition for the two solutions. This is the best I've come up with. I like the fact that none of the words are used for the same purpose in the two solutions. I don't like the fact that I'm stretching a definition of a key word nearly to the breaking point (or past it, perhaps). I'll actually be surprised if anyone gets both words. Sounds like cow on your lead. (7) or (5)
Suspence
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:11 pm    Post subject: 10 By the way, here are the intended solutions for my original clue, in spoilertext: Put a stop to crazy skill (5) KILLS (anagram) and STUNT (double definition) I'm trying to do something with MOO for Zag's, but no dice yet._________________I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.
Vagrant
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:14 pm    Post subject: 11 I guess there's be a lot of homonym multi-answers too. I did a crossword yesterday with clue Regretted sounding impolite (4). I spent ages trying to make RUED fit before realising the answer was RUDE. I've never liked homonym clues with the indicator in the middle but it works for purpose of this thread.
Quailman
His Postmajesty

 Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:24 pm    Post subject: 12 I agree. I think it's bad form to use a homophone indicator in the middle, especially when they have the same letter count. I'm more a fan of the double definition, particularly when the parts of speech in the surface reading are different than those in the double definition, like "Standard tire (4)" or "Boom box (4)"
Zag
Tired of his old title

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:45 pm    Post subject: 13

 Suspence wrote: I'm trying to do something with MOO for Zag's, but no dice yet.

No use of MOO. However, 'cow' is the definition that I'm unhappy with. I'll give this fairly mild hint: the word it defines has 4 letters.
jbvntx
Daedalian Member

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:48 pm    Post subject: 14

 Zag wrote: I was trying to make one that swaps wordplay and definition for the two solutions. This is the best I've come up with. I like the fact that none of the words are used for the same purpose in the two solutions. I don't like the fact that I'm stretching a definition of a key word nearly to the breaking point (or past it, perhaps). I'll actually be surprised if anyone gets both words. Sounds like cow on your lead. (7) or (5)

Couple of thoughts spoilered...

BULLY bull + y = lead (take control of) or maybe BOSSY?
PLUMB = sounds (as in take soundings of a body of water) and lead (as in the chemical element Pb). Didn’t apparently use the words “like cow on your”, though.

_________________
jbv
Zag
Tired of his old title

 Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:51 pm    Post subject: 15 no need to spoil them, jbv. Both are false trails.
Vagrant
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:52 pm    Post subject: 16 Clumsy and wordy but how about ... Wicked thing in time after people's evening retirement starts (5)
Zag
Tired of his old title

 Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:55 pm    Post subject: 17 One of them: taper, a candle (wicked thing) and initials of ...
jbvntx
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:55 pm    Post subject: 18 The other one: NIGHT = thing(anag) and definition of "time after people's evening retirement starts."_________________jbv
jbvntx
Daedalian Member

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:08 pm    Post subject: 19

 Quailman wrote: I agree. I think it's bad form to use a homophone indicator in the middle, especially when they have the same letter count. I'm more a fan of the double definition, particularly when the parts of speech in the surface reading are different than those in the double definition, like "Standard tire (4)" or "Boom box (4)"

Got 'em...
1 is FLAG
2 is SPAR

I like both of these. The second one in particular is elegant.
_________________
jbv
Elethiomel
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:54 pm    Post subject: 20 Fun challenge. Here's the best I could come up with. Denied exports, Amber dejectedly heads out. (4 or 9) Also, here's an &lit. for Zag. Character frequently chasing a crooked don! (4)
novice
No harm. Pun intended!

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:02 pm    Post subject: 21

 Elethiomel wrote: Denied exports, Amber dejectedly heads out. (4 or 9)

First word should be Denies though?
novice
No harm. Pun intended!

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:04 pm    Post subject: 22

 Elethiomel wrote: Character frequently chasing a crooked don! (4)

I like it.

Elethiomel
Daedalian Member

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:09 pm    Post subject: 23

 novice wrote: First word should be Denies though?

Not if you view the 9-letter answer as a noun. (Maybe that's a bit of a stretch, but I wanted to use Denied for the surface reading.)
Vagrant
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:16 am    Post subject: 24 Although interesting (and pretty clever) that the same words lead to different answers, 'Denied exports, Amber dejectedly heads out (4)' and 'Denied exports, Amber dejectedly heads out (9)' are not identical clues. At least not in the way that I think Suspence was looking for.
Zag
Tired of his old title

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:34 am    Post subject: 25

 Elethiomel wrote: Denied exports, Amber dejectedly heads out. (4 or 9)

Nice! Perhaps "Denying" keeps the good surface reading but improves your issue with tenses: a gerund/present tense is a little closer, at least.

 Elethiomel wrote: Character frequently chasing a crooked don! (4)

I like it!! I love the "character frequently chasing A" for "B"

---

Still no progress on mine:

Hint 2: In the version of the clue in which "sounds like" is, in fact, a homophone indicator, it would have been optional because both words are spelled the same way (making them homonyms as well as homophones).
3iff
very unbifflike

 Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:02 am    Post subject: 26 Sounds like cow on your lead. (7) or (5) BEEFY or MEATY ?? Other possibles are METAL and METALED, maybe even METTLED but I'm not happy with them. It would be Metalled in 'real' English.
Zag
Tired of his old title

 Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:32 pm    Post subject: 27 Nope, sorry. Bigger hints: 3. Cow, as in to threaten someone. This is the definition that is stretched, because I'm taking it to mean that the person is actually injured (i.e. HARMed) in some way by this. 4. Cow to mean domesticated bovine, not necessarily female (but not all that male, either) 5. The words 'on' and 'like' are each used as part of the wordplay in one case (opposite cases, though), and they are each just filler in their other case 6. Cow is part of the word play in both clues
novice
No harm. Pun intended!

 Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:19 pm    Post subject: 28 Here's my best shot, as posted in the other thread: Chill out, sea crest. (4)
Zag
Tired of his old title

 Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:29 pm    Post subject: 29 My submission is feeling a little neglected. I'll go ahead and spoil it Sounds like cow on your lead. (7) or (5) Cow (i.e. threaten) = HARM + ON + (lead of your) Y = HARMONY (Sounds) Sounds like (homophone indicator) Steer (castrated male bovine) Steer (your lead)
Quailman
His Postmajesty

 Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:59 pm    Post subject: 30 not to be pedantic, but would you accept "Girl" to clue "Boy"? That's what you're doing if you use "Cow" to clue "Steer".
Elethiomel
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:03 pm    Post subject: 31 I think it makes sense in that a steer makes a similar sound as a cow. Not sure if that was Zag's intention, though.
Elethiomel
Daedalian Member

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:06 pm    Post subject: 32

 novice wrote: Here's my best shot, as posted in the other thread: Chill out, sea crest. (4)

Btw., this was a fun clue. It also sounds like "Chill out, seek rest!", although that apparently has no significance. And I also considered "wave" as a possible answer.
Zag
Tired of his old title

 Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:24 pm    Post subject: 33 I did say above that I was using cow to mean 'domesticated bovine, not necessarily female.' I grew up around cows, and I know that is how we used the term. (i.e. as in, right there). I suspect that this may be regional, however.
Elethiomel
Daedalian Member

 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:59 pm    Post subject: 34 I'm working on another cryptic pyramid, and I'm curious about people's stance on double definitions? I think Zag wrote somewhere that they should only be used when the definitions apply to words with different roots. Personally, I think double definitions can be pretty cool, if the definitions given are creative. Here's an example: Boring outcome flagged in green. On the other hand, I can agree that a clue like Direct series. isn't all that interesting, although I wouldn't call it invalid, regardless of etymology. Thoughts?
Zag
Tired of his old title

 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:10 pm    Post subject: 35 I wouldn't say that such double definitions are verboten. That was something like shorthand for the sorts of double definitions which are immensely unsatisfying because many synonyms of the answer would also work. I am ok with your first one (I had to Google the answer. ), even though the two words are really the same. The thing is that there wouldn't possibly be any other words that fit both definitions.
Elethiomel
Daedalian Member

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:45 pm    Post subject: 36

 Zag wrote: The thing is that there wouldn't possibly be any other words that fit both definitions.

Right, I agree that's a crucial property. Here's one (from the same thread) that might qualify as a triple definition. (Well, not really. But there are three separate ways to find the answer, although one of them is a bit weak.)

Flourish cereal container, of sorts.
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