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THUDandBLUNDER
Threefold Repetition

Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:34 am    Post subject: 1

White to move and win.
.
Antrax
ESL Student

 Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:02 am    Post subject: 2 First thoughts: Looks like the first move has to be c6, with the intention of threatening Ra8. So BxB, Ra1. Now Rd3 should be met with f7 with the threat of f8=Q, BxQ and then Ra8, except it's just too slow: f7 Kd8. Same problems with slower lines I'm trying, the king just walks away. Lines that don't start with c6 don't stand any chance of a quick mate, so it's possible I'm thinking about this the wrong way, and instead need to look for some sort of slow tortuous forced promotion or something, as black's bishop is about as useless as white's one, and white's king is a lot more useful. _________________After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!
THUDandBLUNDER
Threefold Repetition

Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:57 am    Post subject: 3

 Antrax wrote: First thoughts: Looks like the first move has to be c6, with the intention of threatening Ra8. So BxB, Ra1. Now Rd3 should be met with f7

: If 2...Rd3
then
3. RxB, RxR
4. f7 wins.

But Black has
2..........Rf8
3. RxB Kb8 and White gets nowhere
.
.
Zag
Tired of his old title

 Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:09 pm    Post subject: 4 My first thought was f7, threatening Re8 RxR, pXR promote to Q+. I have no idea, though, what black will do in response. Kd7, maybe? What about combining the two ideas? 1. c6 BxB 2. f7. Now the threat is Re8 RxR, pXR promote to Q++
THUDandBLUNDER
Threefold Repetition

 Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:59 pm    Post subject: 5 So we have 1. c6 BxB 2. f7 Now what? .
Zag
Tired of his old title

 Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:13 pm    Post subject: 6 I don't see any better move for black than Kb8, but I'm sure there is one. Assuming there isn't, this all seems forced from that point. 1. c6 BxB 2. f7 Kb8 3. Re8 RxR 4. PxR (promote to Q) + Ka7 5. Qc8 Kb6 (or Qb7++) 6. Qb7 Ka5 Take the pawn and make another queen, or there is probably a quicker checkmate, but up a queen to a bishop is usually considered a win without having to play it out.
THUDandBLUNDER
Threefold Repetition

 Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:59 pm    Post subject: 7 At first I thought the Black king can move from c8 to b8 and back to c8 while polishing his fingernails. (2....Kb8 3.Re8 Kc8) But looks like he has to unregally scurry back to c8, and then gets killed anyway. However, as you say, Black might have better moves than 2. Kb8. .
MNOWAX
0.999... of a Troll

 Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:35 am    Post subject: 8 I may be totally off the mark here, but I dont see the c6 move being the be all and end all 1:c6. BxB 2 f7 Rd6 ( to force him to make a move to save the C file pawn) which means: 3:Re8+ Rd8 4:RxR ... off to the pawn races, with black having better pawns and a bishop to back up I may be dumb, am i missing something?_________________The Man The Myth The Legend MNOWAX
THUDandBLUNDER
Threefold Repetition

Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:11 am    Post subject: 9

 MNOWAX wrote: ...am i missing something?

That it is White who is supposed to win?

Which he can do very quickly after:
2....Rd6?
3. f8 = Q+

.
Antrax
ESL Student

 Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:19 am    Post subject: 10 I'm not sure I understand MNOWAX' post- ah, post preview shows someone already beat me to that punch. Zag, probably all you're missing is the reply to 2.. Bb2 3. Re8 Bg7. Odds are that's not white's third move but I don't see what is._________________After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!
MNOWAX
0.999... of a Troll

Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:30 pm    Post subject: 11

THUDandBLUNDER wrote:
 MNOWAX wrote: ...am i missing something?

That it is White who is supposed to win?

Which he can do very quickly after:
2....Rd6?
3. f8 = Q+

.

Which can be quickly dealt with 3.... BxQ thats why i don't understand
_________________
The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX
THUDandBLUNDER
Threefold Repetition

Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:39 pm    Post subject: 12

 MNOWAX wrote: Which can be quickly dealt with 3.... BxQ

Not after 2...Rd6
.
MNOWAX
0.999... of a Troll

 Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:51 pm    Post subject: 13 thats where i was going wrong, thanks._________________The Man The Myth The Legend MNOWAX
Zag
Tired of his old title

 Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:57 pm    Post subject: 14 Even without the rook blocking the bishop, MNO, white still has Re8, for which black can only bring the rook back to interpose. Back to my plan. 1. c6 BxB 2. f7 if 2 .. Bb2 3. Re8 Bg7 Note the situation that both sides are in. Black can move the bishop between g7 and f8, and can move the h pawn, but can't move the rook or king at all. The rook is pinned. If it takes RxR, then PxR # Q++. If white takes the black rook, then KxR and white is going to lose the passed pawn, as well. White could plan to bring the K forward, taking the pawns and finally getting it into position to support the rook. So black has to plan to have the bishop at h3. Therefore, white has to plan to have the king up to attack f4 while he still has a stalling move available. (If the pawns lock up before he threatens, then he loses.) 4. Kf2 h5 5. Kf3 Bh6 6. h4 (locking up the pawns) B moves 7. Kxf4 B moves 8. Kxf5 Bg7 9. Ke6 Bf8 10. Kf6 B moves 11. Ke7 Bf8 12. KxB resigns
THUDandBLUNDER
Threefold Repetition

 Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:49 am    Post subject: 15 Well done, Zag. I find it surprising that this simple study by Smyslov defeats even the top engines on my dual core.
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